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Has the meaning gone?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Of Easter and Christmas I mean.
My (half) sisters, stepmum, her brother, a friend and I went to roll eggs down a hill last Sunday and when the kids were asked "What does the eggs rolling down the hill symbolise>" The kids couldn't answer. They hadn't a clue!
Same at Christmas. The kids hardly know about jesus's birth, all they know is "Santa Claus" comes down the chimney
This is all because parents won't tell their kids about the stories of Jesus and the other stuff. They don't have a clue what they're celebrating.
There was a woman who wrote into the paper saying she doesn't believe in religion etc. I bet she buys and recieves presents at Christmas, has the dinner and then celebrates Easter though! IMO if they don't believe or don't want to believe then they shouldn't celebrate in the traditional way that those who believe do.
My (half) sisters, stepmum, her brother, a friend and I went to roll eggs down a hill last Sunday and when the kids were asked "What does the eggs rolling down the hill symbolise>" The kids couldn't answer. They hadn't a clue!
Same at Christmas. The kids hardly know about jesus's birth, all they know is "Santa Claus" comes down the chimney
This is all because parents won't tell their kids about the stories of Jesus and the other stuff. They don't have a clue what they're celebrating.There was a woman who wrote into the paper saying she doesn't believe in religion etc. I bet she buys and recieves presents at Christmas, has the dinner and then celebrates Easter though! IMO if they don't believe or don't want to believe then they shouldn't celebrate in the traditional way that those who believe do.
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Egyptians and Persians used to dye eggs in spring colors and give them to friends as a symbol of renewed life long before Christ was born. The myths of several Eastern and middle Eastern cultures maintain that the earth itself was hatched from a giant egg.
Scholars believe the name Easter is derived from Oestar, a goddess of Spring and renewal. The rabbit or hare was the symbol of fertility, new life and of the moon in ancient Egypt. It may have become an Easter symbol because the date for Easter is determined by the moon. Also the ancient Egyptians called the hare Wenu, an insignia of the rising of the sun, Ra, and of the resurrective powers of Osiris.
Easter and Xmas are still being celebrated... only for many it has become something they can relate to... festivities for the kids to enjoy and for families to reunite.
Mwehe
Pagans still celebrate Ostara/Eostre/Spring Equinox even today. It's a festival of rebirth, renewal and optimism, so I'd guess that the egg is what symbolises that idea.
As for modern 'Christian' celebrations... I think it's more a chance for capitalists to cash in on Christian celebrations that were conveiniently set to the times of pagan celebrations centuries ago. I mean yeah, maybe these celebrations have lost significance on religious terms, but it is a time for the kids innit. Personally I hate Christmas. It's a bitch working then, you have to get presents and there's a higher suicide rate at that time of year because people get lonely. The media tell us it should be this or that... and that we should buy big presents, have a huge turkey... bollocks, complete and utter shit.
Now May day... that celebration I'm looking forward to
go you! :thumb:
What do you mean? What's wrong with Christianity?
I haven't met many Christians who have a problem with paganism... in fact it's been known for Christians and pagans tp worship together. besides, some pagans are just as twatty as some Christians can be.
I mean every religion has its down points.
To me it seems that Christmas is about people all having a good time and being together - in this situation every1 is happy and there are no losers. It seems to me that Christmas is better celebrated by Christians and non-christians alike - so everyone can enjoy themselves, and everyone can be happy. No harm is done is there?
I read somewhere that Christmas has a considerably higher suicide rate. No losers?
A religion that promotes morality, hard working and peace?
Yes, elements may have been hijacked by Bush and his arseholes, but the core tenets of Protestantism are the same as they have always been.
If you work hard in your life, if you live a good life without causing undue suffering to other people then you will be rewarded in the afterlife.
What may I ask is wrong with that?
If you want to see the results of a decline in morality, and goodwill to fellow man then go to a council estate at about 8PM, preferably somewhere like a playpark or a newsagents. It's something I see and have to deal with nearly every night, hordes of teenagers who hate society and civilisation.
They boast of taking drugs, having sex with their 13 year old girlfriends, and fighting to kids who are as young as 8.
They have NO respect for authority or other people, they think nothing of setting fire to people's property and ambushing the fire crews, or pelting ambulance crews with stones and insulting them.
if you think this is all media sensationalist bollocks, then you are sadly mistaken. This is happening all over the country and it's getting worse.
And what can the police do? Nothing, because as soon as they've been arrested and charged they're back out on the streets bragging about it and causing hell for their neighbours.
We had one guy tell us that he's sick of it, and the next time he sees one near his house he'll kill them and I wouldn't be surprised if he did. And this man is law abiding, he has a house, a mortgage, pays his taxes and doesn't have a criminal record. He is someone who wants to look out for his family and the only way he can do so is by ensuring that the people responsible for constantly smashing his windows are put in hospital.
So don't tell us we don't need moral guidelines, because typically you are one of the goody two shoes who doesn't actually have to experience the results of your meddling.
Some Christians are peaceful and lovely. My sister for instance.
Some are fundamentalist warmongers. George Bush for instance.
Same as some Muslims are lovely and peaceful and some are warmongering lunatics.
We don't need religion to have morals. What might help though, is a fair and equitable society.
So can you give another reason for the decline in morals over the last decade and how it ISN'T linked to the decline in religious attendance.
Do you know what the irony is?
On numerous occasions I've seen these kids being accompanied by adults. On enquiring as to who they are it turns out that they are.......
CHRISTIANS. Trying to do something to protect the decline in morals that has been exhibited over the last ten years.
Oh, how delicious when the very people you hate, are the amongst the only people to identify that this country and its people are going down the fucking toilet.
yes, we have a fair and equitable society, we have a society that PERMITS people to ruin the lives of others and get away with it. Fair to the scum perhaps, but is it fair to the law abiding? I think if you did some door knocking round here you'll find people telling you where all the "left wing idiots" can go.
Mark my words, we will start to see a rise in vigilante justice unless someone fixes the mess that people like you have created.
Yes. Thatcherism, consumerism, the ever growing gap between the rich and poor, the destruction of community caused by capitalism etc etc.
Yes there may be an ever growing gap, however it's crap for 2 reasons:
1)Poor people are still a lot richer and better off than they were 10 years ago.
2)The average 15 year old vandal has no concept of class struggle and burns things because he is a mindless thug.
There is a much bigger gap between the rich and the poor than there was 10 years ago.
No, 15 year old vandals are not class warriors. I didn't say they were. But if all they see around them is shit schools, shit facilities, crappy jobs, no hope yet are told by media constantly that they need the latest car, designer clothes, plasma screen telly etc to be happy, then what do you expect?
Neither actually applies to anything which happened to Jesus, more both are Christianity hijacking previously pagan festivals.
Surely therefore the Christian spin on these two dates is the real "Loss of meaning"...?
Easter = couple of extra bank holidays. Great.
Xmas = a holiday to spend quality time with friends and family, to feast on food, drinks and stimulants, and to exchange presents if one is into that sort of thing.
Organised religion has no monopoly of those days or a say on how we should spend them.
But they can offer an opinion, and we then have the choice whether or not to follow it...
There is no expectation from the state that we will use these closures/bank holidays to follow religious teachings - hence there is still separation (your initial comment).
Bank Holidays are historical - they may have been based on religion in the past but most have now evolved into a free day - indeed how many of us actually celebrate May Day in the way it was originally planned?
And what proof do we have that the pagan festivals were 'hijacked'? There is evidence, for example that supports the ideas for the Christian calender being close to (what is now known as) the pagan wheel of the year to promote their religion. Y'know, things like carvings of the green man and pagan gods in very early churches.
Personally I think Christians take a lot of shit.
As for the holidays, to be honest I don't believe people should celebrate Christmas and easter if they're not Christian. I'd work in the pub on Christmas day, I mean it's just another day isn't it?
If we all celebrate Christmas... why not celebrate Eide, Hannukah, all the other festivals?
But then how could we celebrate something as it was originally planned, when it's as old as a pagan celebration?
Ah well we still got Maypoles (a phallic symbol actually, it's a fertility festival) and old stories.