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fao Globe and mil.com posters
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I recall Clinton getting some flak for his lack of service in Vietnam and 'draft-dodging' and I always assumed this is why he was not popular with the military.
GWB was also criticized for the same thing, has this affected his standing with you guys and the military in general or is previous military service no longer an issue?
Don't flame, genuine question.
GWB was also criticized for the same thing, has this affected his standing with you guys and the military in general or is previous military service no longer an issue?
Don't flame, genuine question.
0
Comments
GWB joined the Air National Guard, and became a fighter pilot, when he stood the greatest chance of being deployed to Vietnam. Did he fly in Vietnam? No... but if the war had not ended, in the manner and timing it did? He would have been there.
What GWB did not do? He did NOT go to Russia, and protest against the Vietnam War. He did NOT - by his actions - give aid to the enemy of his country. He did NOT - by his actions - contribute to extending a conflict, give hope to the enemy, and thereby contribute to the deaths of tens of thousands of his countrymen.
Clinton, however? Guilty on ALL counts.
Just for the record, since you have asked a serious question: I do not agree with GWB on ALL issues. I disagree, on many. I disagreed upon the manner in which the recent war in Iraq was fought, bypassing the enemy with a blitzkreig type thrust into Baghdad, and leaving that enemy to do what they are now doing. However... GWB does not represent and lead only me, but ALL of the American citizenry. He does not answer to just me, but ALL of us.
I will tell you this... Marines HATED to guard Clinton. But especially after the action on Thanksgiving Day, and putting himself in harm's way for those who prosecute the war, on GWB's behalf? There is not likely a Marine who would not take the bullet intended for Bush. The respect goes 2 ways... and Bush lives his part.
Prior military service, and even service in Vietnam, does not guarantee my agreement, affirmation, nor loyalty. McCain served honorably, and was a POW for years... but his politics absolutely stink. Kerrey served as a Seal in Vietnam, but his politics reek.
I disagree with many things concerning GWB, yet I still respect the man, and his commitment to this nation. And there is not another on the scene who would do a better job.
Dean? I have friends - Marine Brothers - whose remains have never come back from Vietnam. To have Dean's brother gain preferential treatment in confirming the remains, when the brother was in Laos seeking evidence of "war crimes", when he was killed? Not a damned Marine/soldier/sailor/airman would squander the piss, if Dean was on fire. It is an insult to each of us, and especially our Brother's, who sacrificed their lives, in that place.
There some doubts about that...
AWOLBush.com
I observe unsubstantiated accusation.
Guess that makes it true for you... it feeds your need for masturbatory gratification... :rolleyes:
Show me an Article 15... with GWB's name on it.
Seems I recall you some while back rolling out the vitriol against the priviledged service of another famous pampered son, Kennedy.
The truth that you wish to evade to safeguard your blinkered view of reality is that Bush would NEVER have gone to Nam. No political elite would ever have risked their progeny and future successor to the throne on the front lines of any foreign conflict and whether you admit it or not, you know it to be true.
Thus the reason Bush was given the cushy posts, safely away from the theatre of past conflict (also predicated upon lies and government deception, all long since revealed and well documented).
But apart from the fact that this White House excels in eliminating (or classifying) any incriminating records of those in its cadre, one would have to navigate the labyrinthine bureaucracy of our federal government to find any citations against Baby Bush under the FOA (which you should know equally well).
What can be found on the net (that hasn't already been sabotaged by the horde of ultra right wing geeks hired to hack whatever embaraaing truths they can find, that is) is still rather interesting and puts lie to your blind allegiance to any actual pilot experience by the Commander in Thief...
George W. Bush request for assignment to Air Reserve duty: DENIED!
Other interesting and telling documented evidence of the politically protected service of George W. (some links curiously no longer working, surprise surprise)...
A window into Dubyah's (highly selective) service
How telling as well that any documentation regarding review of such serious charges as going AWOL fall under the "Not available for 'administrative' reasons" snow job.
One should, if one is honest (alot to ask of you Than, we realise) that out of his 6 year service obligation he served only 5 yrs 4 months and 5 days. hmm are nearly 8 month holidays from duty lavished on all our boys?
Where did the time go, eh?
Note qualifications: NONE (qualified pilot eh?) :rolleyes:
Yes, perhaps youll tell us how common it is that those in service to our nation can as well simply request that they be discharged early so they can move to Cambridge (not Boston Mr. Bush, but we know you have no concept of geography) to go to HARVARD. All whilst the sons of lesser citizens were dying in Nam - not to protect our nation from any threat to our domestic security, but to protect elitest big business interests in the region (hey exactly like theyre doing today without question).
I guess that would be where the 'doubts' come in...
Ah yes, deny the reality of what is a matter of public record to defend (albeit pointlessly) another of your heros, Kissinger (whose own collaboration with brutal dictators and red communist China are also a matter of record).
A primer on Nixon Admin War Crimes, Yours sincerely, H. Kissinger
No your blind partisanship would love nothing more than to parade the delusion that Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos was anything other than a long running war crime on the part of successive administrations. Or perhaps you should go before Congress and give them a sample of your patently substantive argumentation to demonstrate the falsehood of this...
It's not a warcrime nor terrorism if youre a US serviceman who kills civilians, anyone else who does it however is a plague on humanity
Once again your hypocritically selective consciousness shines through (seems the politics you subscribe to have been reeking for decades)!
Perhaps it's time to shoulder that assault rifle and go kill off the liberals trying to hold our leaders accountable like the real "patriots" did back in the good old days over at Kent State, eh? :rolleyes:
Tell us again all about the "liberty" and "truth" and "democracy" you claim to have fought to defend!
Just one of many, do a google search for "Howard Dean's Brother killed in Laos" and youll have more than enough options of sources.
Just curious?
Exactly how much time have you served?
You asked a serious question. You got a serious reply.
That is how it works, for me.
As to issues concerning military service / combat / etc?
These are not "philosphical/theorhetical" discussions. These bring up remembrances of those who fought to their death, around me. They are of the closest of friends, in this world. Issues of loyalty. Issues of sacrifice.
While they are punchlines for the likes of the collaborator, they are reality, for those of us who have served.
Willfully ignoring the historically exposed record that those who drive the agenda behind the conflicts and deployments did so upon falsely declared pretenses and for economic and politically inspired ends other than "defending our nation's freedom" IS precisely the issue which you continually assail people for addressing.
Obviously you prefer to swallow the rhetoric and spin so long as its right wing in origin ( "oooh reports on Salon.com are bogus but Fox News links are to be wholly trusted as unbiased" :rolleyes: ) and thus somehow more patriotic to you than efforts to put an end to the repetitive cycle of foreign engagements which only further the control and profiteering of our corporate elites and their political bedfellows (or both major parties).
Obviously you somehow justify putting our soldiers at risk and maintining the status quo of a MIC inflated beyond all proportion to the actual needs of our nation's security and defense. Installing even more puppet regimes, arming them and later villifying them when they no longer serve our interest in order to perpetuate the myth of "threat to our way of life" clearly is a logical follow through you cannot come to terms with for it would force you to turn a critical eye on your own heroic partisan leadership for their lies and duplicity.
Face it Than, your hypocrisy and selective politcal awareness is so blatant it precedes your every post.
Much easier therefore to just make personal assaults to avoid dealing with the documented facts in a substantive manner.
Btw: Thanks for the negative attention over at military.com in the MoK thread. The responses are just what would be expected from knee-jerk reactionaries.
Love you too
Much safer for you over there, no doubt.
The most I found out was that he worked for a Democratic Presidential candidate and was against the war in Vietnam.
Can anyone enlighten me.
In your self-possessed, self-empowered, self-centered pursuit of self, you repeatedly fail to comprehend the statement that I hold Kissinger to the same level of disgust as... you. What does it matter, the blatant lies which roll from your sewer, as long as it forwards your nefarious agenda.
You manufacture as you go, in the manner of your "greatest ever American President", Clinton (your words).
When you base your diatribe upon self-manufactured canards, the rest of what spews from the sewer is pointless to contend/confront.
You make a point of GWB only serving 5 yrs, 4 mo., and 5 days; I ask again, exactly what length of time did YOU serve???
You are nothing more than a self-serving political wannabe, and that is the sum total of "service" in your past.
Your statement that you "hope it is revealed that the current administration orchestrated the WTC attack" is telling... It is more important to you to attack the president and his administration, than the lives of thousands of Americans, lost through terrorism which you support, passively.
You disgust me.
So... there are those who make a buck off of war? Big fucking deal. Has been this way, since wars became organized. SOMEONE will make that buck, but it is a collateral issue, not the primary cause. The Kennedy's made their fortune off of bootlegging, and ALL that entailed. Such is the way of the world.
Someone made a buck off of Vietnam? Big fucking deal. I did not go over there, and spend over two years of my life, to line someones pocket with gold... it happened collaterally. Same with Iraq... If oil was the issue for this government? It would have been purchased for a mere fraction of what was spent to oust Hussein, and Hussein would have been over-joyed to take the money. Cheap oil was the issue for France and Germany, along with their arms sales, and you know it! Or you are simply too stupid to accept the reality.
You think me stupid because I am not a parasite of the system, with my snoot in the money trough, like you. That you are an idiot for hire does not impress me. That you would whore yourself, does not impress me.
You think we are led around by a ring through our noses...
What you fail to comprehend is that we are represented by a President and government who do our bidding. We - the grunts of this nation - affect the policy of the government, right down to their damned language. When Rumsfeld used the word rectumification on CNN a year ago? He was using a term coined by me, used in classified communiques by my Marine Corps son - who used to post here - and made its way up the chain of command. It was used in highest level commuiques, before it was ever used publicly, by this government.
Yeah, collaborator, another one I coined. Too fucking bad, for you.
That son? Is one who analyzed rough intel, before it got passed up through channels. He saw things that the Predident will NEVER have clearance to view. It is not that this government is leading us through our "stupidity", but that the government is dependent upon us - as it has ALWAYS been - for its view of the world.
Not my problem that you have neither the clearance, nor the trust of this nation, to view what many of us "ignernt grunts" have seen. If you were not so gutless? Perhaps you might have pursued a career which would have afforded you that privilege, rather than the parasitic one you currently pride yourself in...
Easier to puke up the label "neo-con", than face the truth, isn't it? When was the last time you posted, sans that epithet?
You are nothing but an arrogant, self-important little wanker.
Your little friends like aladdin may believe you shit rosebuds, but the stench from your mouth is appalling.
Enjoy your little pond. We know what an effect it has upon what is happening in the REAL world, don't we?
Its patently obvious however that a priori to your beliefs is a level of latent hatred and arrogance that presumes itself the end all and be all of the future of our nation.
If that be true oh realistic one (who speaks so elequently of the sewer, methinks you reside there) why are you not in public office yourself? You have both the tone and self-justifying mannerisms of a top notch Congressman. For my part, I am neither whore nor minstrel, merely one of many who seek to provide options for those who play the game. Sometimes sucessful other times not.
Ill thank you not to run afoul therefore of your own narcissistic injunctions to others and presume to have any inkling of my credentials, professional or life experiences, or my loyalties to my nation.
Your naive assumption that those who do the bidding of corrupt political elites are the ones setting the agenda is bemusing, perhaps more so than your claim to being the administration's speech writer. Although given the oft beligerent tones of the administration's rhetoric, perhaps you have had some influence.
Be that as it may, however, I am pleased to see you demonstrating at least a pretense at substantive and reflective dialogue. Perhaps when you wish to end the adolescent schoolyard name calling, some hope might even exist for us to at least respectively agree to disagree on the operative principles that govern the political arena and that which lies at the heart of(not collateral to) the blood sacrificed to fuel it. I won't hold my breath waiting to see it though.
For now, however, feel free to name fellow citizens "enemy" and call down perdition upon those who see our nation on a one way path in the wrong direction. Our nation only suffers all the more, a house divided, as camps are drawn and the public debate fades into whispers beneath the clamor of your scathing diatribe.
Perhaps when the hatred you evince has become the prevailing ethos of our citizenry and those in Washington toast to the success of their efforts to misinform and delude the public into unquestioning and wholehearted support for their larger schemes, you might be called upon to "coin" the clever term to describe the birth of the new American despotism.
Something im sure you'll be proud to contribute.
Where's 'Steve' off the 'Jerry Springer' show when you need him
By the way, it would appear he has been busy telling everyone there how he was banned for his political views and all that. What a nasty thing to do. Damn these bloody liberals!
Well, not quite. I would like to point something out to our friends over there that contrary to his claims to the contrary, Thanatos was NOT banned for his political views. He was banned for repeated abusive language, thus breaching the rules of this forum, and after ignoring countless warnings from the moderators.
By the way... this thing about Thanatos' son seeing that earth-shattering classified information proving all sorts of things... It all reminds me of a much-celebrated bushbot persona who posts in a well-known "anarchist" message board based in south London. He kept saying how his best mate is a janitor who is mates with someone high at the Pentagon, and he'd seen "concrete evidence" of Saddam's WMDs.
Poor man hasn't been having a very good time of late with all the jibes about his friend the janitor. I mean, all we've been saying is that Dubya could do right now with the information that will point him to the elusive WMDs. It appears that the whole of the US Armed Forces and intelligence services know where the weapons are, but Dubya doesn't. Right Thannie?
So come on then, have you registered too and if so whats your name there ?
This is the time for you lot to come clean, whos made a visit to mi.com and who has registered (im not talking about the people I know who have joined up)
But I might just register soon. By their own rules I shouldn't do so, but then you guys were admitted even though you're not military folk. So maybe I'll join. At the end of the day I've been in the army myself.
But should I put the cards on the table and register as Aladdin? How long would I last?
Time will tell I guess...
I like others have been told as long as you respect the boards you wont get banned, which is fair comment isnt it ?
the most annoying thing over there is trying to work the bloody thing!
I was banned because I stated that a particular poster was too gutless to defend themselves, the type of person that when confronted by a rapist, they would bend over, accept their "fate", and then thank the rapist for the moment.
I exchanged Private Messages with the moderator, and then was banned a week later, as the post was perverted into "disparaging comments concerning homosexuals"... NOT what had been intended, when I posted. However, the manufactured excuse provided a reason to bannish a dissenting view, and give free rein to the prevailing circle jerk.
But then... the truth would never get between you and your agenda, would it?
And my language? Has never been more abusive than that employed by you and your philosophical guru...
Terms Of Use are enforced equitably, there.
Communism is dead -which Clan fails to recognize.
The threat of the Jihadists want to destroy the western way of life - as proclaimed in their web sites.
Clan has had his problems with Greenhat -and Clan had his dick in a wringer.
if he really had any balls he'd take his suck to Mil.com. and see how that community would handle him.
________________________________________________
5'2 & size 13 shoe
Doesn't take balls to walk into a wall of willful blindness and hate-mongering, just a cessation of reason. No thanks.
Oh and Than, you are ever the master of the attack and cover tactic, feigning victimisation whilst you lash out abusively in every manner you claim to loathe when its directed back at you.
Your post above demonstrates that like nothing else. But heck, its obviously therapeutic and hopefully keeps your violent tendencies under control so as previously suggested, feel free to remain true to your character here.