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If I could pack in now I would. Why would I waste thousands of pounds a year on something that can kill me ?
Please beleive me it is not that easy to pack in smoking.
Now as far as packing in drugs I have been led to beleive yes its hard to pack in drugs but you stand a much better chance quitting drugs and staying clean compared to a smoker. I have not got this information at hand and to be honest I dont even know where I read it.
Sorry Jacq the last bit of my post was not aimed directly at you
note that I said "most" and "problem drug users". :rolleyes:
If you read my post properly, you would see that I said that "users don't usually steal" to feed an alcohol or tobacco habit. This doesn't mean that it never happens. But you failed to answer my point that it is possible to give someone a maintenance dose of heroin, as its not actually very physically harmful, but the same is not true of alcohol or tobacco. But alcoholics are often prescribed tranquilisers to help with withdrawals and smokers can be prescribed Zyban. Are you against this as well?
There is help available on the NHS for smokers, just as there is help for alcoholics. So I fail to see your point.
The difference is that tobacco is legal and easily available. If it wasn't the I'm sure more people would steal to fund their habit.
No, its not easy to pack in smoking. And yes it is very harmful. But think how much worse it would be for you if tobacco was illegal, the price was much higher, due to it being a black market product, you had to associate with some very nasty people to get it, it was cut with brick dust or contaminated with lethal bacteria and you never knew how strong it was going to be?
See my point?
Becky, I have not said that it is easier to stop smoking. Just that it's easier to get the help needed, when ready for it.
Firstly I cannot comment on what drug users are given, I have never taken drugs so for me to comment on what they get for replacement would be very silly. I am also not aware what alcoholics are prescribed because i have never had a drink problem, again i will take your word on that.
Zyban, well are you telling me my doctor aint doing his job ? Ive never been offered anything apart from patches. I was not given much help or information to actually quit. Zyban is that the drug than can cause bad side effects I.E the main side effect being epilepsy ? because if it is the one i would not take it anyway. So yes if Zyban can cause epilepsy then i am dead against it.
Jacq I obviously have misunderstood you, I thought you were saying it was easier for a smoker to pack in fags compared with a drug user quitting drugs. I personally feel there is a lot more help available to drug users compared with smokers, having said that maybe in my area there is a noticable difference, I honestly dont know. But there is deffinately lots of help for drug users.My apologies for getting confused
I know that giving heroin to people on the NHS sounds crazy, but trust me, its a good idea.
You got patches offered to you on prescription after all didn't you? If you'd been unemployed or on incapacity benefit, you'd have got them free too. But yes, a lot of GP's lack knowledge when it comes to addiction, which is why there are statutory and non-statutory specialist drug and alcohol services. The NHS also runs a quitline for smokers and a lot of health centres run stop-smoking clinics.
Yes, Zyban can cause side affects, but then so can most drugs. But that wasn't my point - you were saying that problem drug users get more help than drinkers or smokers and they shouldn't get free drugs. I'm pointing out that drinkers and smokers do actually get help and do get free drugs.
[edited to make more sense]
I really dont think anyone is suggesting that the NHS just hand out drug randomly free to people. The suggestion is that it would be better socialy, financialy and moraly to give problem drug users the drugs that they NEED rather than them go to the black market.
You are right Zyban can have side effects, it is also know as Welbutrin if I'm not mistaken. But for some it can be a HUGE help.
and your a qualified doctor? and just for the record Mr roll has not posted here so how can I listen to what he is saying ? i hardly know you so im gonna be honest here and say I would not beleive 100% what you say. I dont mean that in a nasty way, but how do I know that you do actually know about drugs to this extent ?
You are pointing out drinkers/smokers do get help and im telling you they have not given me the help to quit ? well apart from offer me patches which yes were on prescription but I could not use them because they irritated me and I was riving them off my body. I did try two different types (before you come back at me).
I said if Zyban can cause epilepsy then i would not take it, so seeing as you know so much in this field is one of the main side effects epilepsy ? It wouldnt matter what prescribed medication i was offered if it had a side effect like epilepsy I would refuse it.
Bongbudda I said the same earlier in my post anyone suffering from an addiction should get help. As for drug users I would think they also have to be in the right frame of mind to actually sucseed.
How long would they get it free for ? Would it be like maximum dose and gradually weaned them off ? Its ok saying yeah give free drugs but there has to be guidelines etc.
Another thing whilst we are talking about addiction what about people who are addicted to gambling ? i know its not life threatening but these days how many people are addicted to say fruit machines ? there are a lot of people who are addicted to something so lets not forget about them.
And from the first page of this thread
so wrong on both counts really
I meant just now with the posts we been making tbh. I obviously missed his first post lol.
No I wasnt trying to be nasty on the beleiving you bit, but drugs are a serious thing if you dont know what your talking about.
As for epilepsy and Zyban? I have no idea...at least I didn't until I did a web search. Google is your friend.
And yes, you are right that people who want to kick a habit have to want to do it. But getting a maintenance scrip and being stabilised in their use can be a first step.
And yes, compulsive gamblers should also receive help, but the relative harm they cause society is minor compared to drugs.
But I do know what I'm talking about. As I said, I know it seems crazy, but it is a good idea. In fact some doctors do already prescribe heroin. Almost all did until sometime in the mid - late 60's (I forget exactly when). Heroin became a much bigger problem when they stopped (obviously this wasn't the only factor, but it contributed IMHO).
Well maybe I might start listening now
Well come on then convince me ? Im all ears
How much would it cost to give the drugs ? Just supposing the drugs were given and money being as tight as it is then is it fair to feed a drug user his/her fix than to give someone lets say a minor operation. Because the money has to come from somwhere doesent it ?
Drugs are a big problem so I would think overall it could be a costly excersise.
tobacco and to some extent alcohol ...are not cuasing massive social problems. heroin is.
billions of pounds are going to gangsters and more so terrorists.
police officers and bank managers are being corrupted by the massive bribes and kick backs that only drug barons can pay.
drug addiction is possibly the biggest threat to your well being ...yes you people who have never taken heroin and never will. it is threatening your childrens future.
the plan isn't that anyone can walk in the doctors and say gis a bit o that mate. the plan is to take control of the problem. take control and massive finance out of the hands of organised crime and terrorists.
heroin is amazingly cheap to manufacture ...ici cieber giegy and others already produce tons of the stuff for medical use.
anyone who believes that heroin production and distribution should remain in the hands of criminals and terrorists knows nothing ...NOTHING at all about the problem. the fact that otherwise responsible parents can be so ill informed about the threats to their childrens future is alarming to say the least!
gun crime is out of control ...the jails are at bursting point ...heroin can be obtained ever cheaper and somewhere just near your house.
a lot of us have been actively campaigning to change the drug laws ...even the police constables association now has more members who want that change than those who don't. more and more government people and medical experts and specialists see the sense in it. the prison service ...the probation service ...all are begining to support the changes that are desperarely needed.
for those of you who still don't understand ...what do YOUI ...think should be done ...come on, it would be interesting to hear.
queen victoria smoked cannabis for her period pains and used opium for pleasure ...thousand of middle and upper classes indulged in these drugs without shame as it wasn't illegal!
the working folk could purchase laudanum which was opium dissolved in alcohol ...and what a jolly old time they had.
since the begining of history large numbers of any and every population on earth have indulged in all kinds of drugs for escape and pleasure ...without problems ...it is the natural thing to do it would seem if you read your history.
there has never been a drug free society or time.
the only thing new is ...that governments think they can change 10,000 years of history by making it illegal and handing over what should be the trade of the chemist and practitioner to thugs and rouges and worst of all ...terrorists.
with the distasterous results we are now faced with.
making it perfectly legall and respectable to obtain these these things is just returning the situation to normal.
It is MUCH cheaper to give addicts the drugs they need than let them just get on with it. Even if you didnt actualy even try to get them off the heroin, you just gave them what they needed it would be much better for the country.
But, treatment centers and then help with getting back into society is the best option.
Again though, I would point out the problem there is with cocaine, there is really not good drug/s to help people come off that. The best so far is to seal you up in a treatment center and give you lots of downers so you dont feel so bad.
the illegal drugs market in the uk is estimated to be worth 7 to 10 billion pounds a year! every penny of that going toward crime and terrorism ....do you understand the terrorist funding link ...the fact that all opium/heroin is in the hands of islamic extremists? if the uk are handing them up to 10 billion a year ...how much are they getting in total from the rest of the western world? surely it is worth the meagre ammounts it would cost to prescribe heroin, just to cut off this phenominal endless flow of hard cash to these people.
when it was legal ...there was no crime connected to its use.
It does sound a lot better when you put it like that and also some of the other stuff you have written.
In effect yes people would get their drugs but then in theory it Should save lives because people are not using bad drugs. It cuts out the drug smuggler or to a certain degree it would, because not everyone would want to go and see their doc I suppose.
The more I read about this makes me think it could be a good idea.
Most UK heroin (brown) comes through Turkey and is in the hands of a group of select families. They have controled an overwelming amount of the heroin trade here for years. They are the ones making the big money because they can buy it in the near east for nothing and sell it here for loads.
That and most opium production in the far east (white) is controled by groups from either side of the Burma (myanmar) civil war and has been for years too.
There is also the rise in Columbian heroin, which has made serious inroads into the US market.
Yeah, i mean lets just forget selling the product with the highest addiction rate over the counter to 12 year olds
[No i am not a hypocrite!!
Read the full thread Me Dear
people are entitled to change of opinion, its a womans perogative to change her mind
most of afghanistans opium goes to iran ...where it is converted to morphine base ...they make millions by allowing and controlling this part of the route and the crude production necessary. over the last twenty years more and more stuff has been published regarding this illegal and VERY ...profitable operation ...the money is apparently chanelled to those who are bent on destroying israel. it's unoficial money ...big bags of it.
the turkish families then turn it into brown heroin of a very high standard and are responsible for the export of the stuff into europe ...where organised crime take over.
from the begining to the end of this route people are making very good money. unsavoury people on the whole.
the biggest cocaine bust ever in the uk was about 6 weeks ago.
they were all patting themselves on the back and announcing a major blow to the cocaine trade ...prices it was announced would rise sharply on the streets. over a 48 hr period it is estimated the price went up about ten pounds a gram as those at street level dealing cashed in on the news.
the price 72 hrs after the great victory in the drugs war ...plummeted!
what was the point in spending millions of pounds of your money over a three year period ...to achieve ...absolutely nothing?
As I said the big money really isnt in growing the plants, the big mark up comes from turning the morphine liquid base into diamorphine powder then shipping it to western countries.
Same as with cocaine, Columbia doesnt actualy produce that much coca anymore, but they take the coca base from others and produce cocaine, then sell it to the mexicans for import to the US.