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fascism anyone?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Truly shameful and pathetic!
What problems exactly do you have with this strategy?
Regardless of what Ms. Harris wishes to claim (all too typical of the right wing to ignore the fact that they are either currently emulating or have long exported the very practices they cite as grounds for invading other countries and overthrowing their leaders) this is fascist and nazi social cleansing and has no place in a liberal democracy (especially not in the "land of the free").
Do drug users not have rights?
Yes, and look at the sorts of regimes that have built motorways, the Thitrd Reich, Mussolini's Italy, Etc.
Eugenics is a seperate thing from fascism (although the two can be intertwined). Its not that its particulary important, I just get irritated with everyone calling everything and everyone nazis or fascists.
Yes of course they have some rights (although they've jepardised some of them by breaking the law), but I don't see how this violates their rights? They aren't being forced to be sterilised, they're excersising their right to be sterilised if they choose to do so.
Leaving aside your assertion that breaking the law should jeopadise your human rights, don't you think that offering addicts money, for which they are probably quite desperate to fund a habit with, for being sterilised is frankly rather immoral and repugnant? People in the grip of an addiction aren't usually thinking straight and just want money for the next fix. What happens if these people clean up? They've sold their ability to have kids for a hit.
Anyone who offers an addict that choice, knowing what addiction entails, is a total and utter scum bucket IMO.
Addiction can be cured, and drug taking isn't the worst of crimes. Surely the best thing to do with addicts is to throw them into detox until they clean up.
Addicts won't clean up until they want to. Sad, but true. All people can do in the meantime is to support them if they need help. But offering addicts money to be sterilised is fucked up IMO.
So? No one's being forced to do it.
Did you not read what I wrote? Life ain't as black & white as you seem to think it is.
not physically, but very possibly mentally. after all no one forces someone to have a cigarette do they? but they do, and lots of people would do a lot of things to get one. its called addiction
There's no reason for me to ever do that.
Why do you bother posting on here then?
I agree with Blagsta that's it's an easy way to make money - some addicts will do anything for money for their next hit.
With so many people turning to drugs and alcohol, surely that says something about the state of society and not just there being an abundance of 'genetically inferior' people in the world?
Thats so true, an addict will get money anyway they can just for that next fix.
It's people like this woman (or preferably the entire Republican Party and similar moral crusaders) who should be sterilised.
No great loss there.
But no one has real freedom of choicel, they're always restrained by wants and needs.
For instance, I don't want to work to get money to buy things I need for survival or just want. I could easily make a statement like "its everyone's right to get what they need or want without having to work in a job they hate", but it doesn't mean anything.
If giving incentives to drug addicts to be sterilised prevents many more people down the line from being ddicts, and therefore abject misery, why not? Afterall, addiction is a very inheritable trait (through genes and rearing), and if less were in the circulation there would be less "paths" into addiction to these substances (through dealing, offering, culture, etc) so why not try and prevent this trait being passed on to their children, and their children's children, and their childrens childrens etc etc...
You accept that people have to choose bad things for themselves in everyday life, so why are you acting indignant that anyone could beleive that somebody who has made the choice to take something they may well be addicted to are being given another choice to prevent the same thing happening to countless others?
then what? how bout ethnic minorities, the unemployed, the aged and infirm?
Absolute freedom may not exist, but human rights certainly do and this sort of policy is a direct infringement of them.
Well if a handicapped person or someone with a birth defect wanted to be sterilised, then I'd say they should be. I'd even go so far as to say they should be actively discouraged from having children, or rather encouraged not to. Fair enough its hurtful and maybe offensive to them, but if it prevents massive suffering for others in the future...
But ethnic minorities aren't "worse" in any aspect than the ethnic majority. Unemployed people are more often out of work due to chance than anything else, and people can't pass on "age" or "infirmity" onto their children by genetics or rearing :crazyeyes
I really don't see how this is an infringement of human rights, if anything its an expression of every humans right to manage their financial rights and the right to manipulate their own bodies.
unless you're an american, in which case drug taking is the most heinous thing you can do.
thats a rather simplistic view on things - for a start, no drug dependent person or addict is going to clean up unless they want to or can see the point in doing so and sadly many can't.
but if you have studied, worked in or experienced the "detox business", and this is an informed statement based on research, study and experience then fair enough making such a statement
You don't see how enticing people - who's ability to make an informed and rational decision about their physical and economic wellbeing or prospects is clouded by a desperate dependency on mind altering drugs - into sacrificing their reproductive rights for their next fix (rather than getting serious on a national scale about preventative education and proper treatment and rehadbilitation) is an infringement of human rights????
Thank god your not in any position of national leadership!
This is not a matter of informed choice, it's condescending authoritarian exploitation pure and simple!
I don't see how thats relevant.
How much do you know about addiction and its psychological processes? Not a lot I suspect.
Heroin addiction is not a genetic thing, it is very often a product of environment though. It is not a given that children of addicts will become addicts themselves though.
:rolleyes:
Read what I wrote again. Heroin addicts do not generally make rational informed decisions. But they can kick heroin and lead productive lives and have well adjusted children. They should not be offered money to take this chance away when not thinking straight.
And yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
Rather revealing your true colours there. But its a different situation. As I've already said, several times, addicts are not in a position to make an informed and rational choice.
But its not. See my point above.
Ok, if thats your point of view, then do you think that "while they are addicts" (although the leading view is that once addicted, you are effectively always addicted) these people should be (by law):
1) Prevented from voting
2) prevented from having children
3) prevented from writing wills
4) prevented from making any life changing decision other than to kick the addiction
since your view is that addicts are not in a position to make an informed and rational choice?
Also, I would say that its the ultimate rational thing for them to do, it prevents human suffering in the future which outweighs the suffering they themselves bear.
If you don't think addiction is genetically hereditary do a few quick searches on the net, I'm quoting the findings of numerous recent scientific studies. And no your right, they might not necessarily become addicts to anything, but its likely they will.
As for my "true colours"- I don't quite understand why these are bad. Would you not like to see less disabled or deformed people?
I don't think its wise for addicts to have children while struggling with a drug problem, no.
The rest of your list is silly, totally different things.
Addicts aren't addicts for life you know. :rolleyes:
While there are some studies that suggest that there may be a genetic component to addictive behaviour, that is a very different thing to saying that addiction is hereditary.
Doesn't bother me. I bet theres a few disabled people who would have something to say to you on the matter as well.
Who are you to judge who is disabled/deformed and who isn't. Slippery path to fascism that.