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Is 'White Racism' real?
Former Member
Posts: 242 Trailblazer
Mods - I know this may be a controversial subject, so feel free to throw this one into oblivion if it does not fit the purpose 
I just wanted to rant about a subject that is an interesting talking point!
So, I just got called a 'racist' by a woman on Twitter because I told her my experience growing up.
Thankfully I do not live there anymore, but growing up, my family was the only 'white' family on a mostly black and ethnic minority estate. It was something else. We got whistled at, had slurs called (which I will not be repeating as I am pretty sure I would be in trouble!) and the climax of it all was our house was bricked and windows smashed, our bikes stolen...the MP was involved and we had to be relocated.
We spent years thinking what was wrong - was it the fact we were struggling to get a job? No, because it was a council estate. Was it due to the fact my dad was a job coach? No, because his job centre was in the next city along.
So, we were moved and we all unanimously agreed, maybe we were at the end of a racist attack. Now that word is pretty powerful to throw around, but I genuinely think it was. And I see it happening more frequently, that you will be called a 'liar' or ironically 'racist' for even insinuating a thing...
So I wanted to ask your honest opinions - is there such a thing as 'white racism' or is it just 'abuse'? I don't wanna start an argument, but at the same time, I want to open my mind and be more respectful to others mindsets
I just wanted to rant about a subject that is an interesting talking point!So, I just got called a 'racist' by a woman on Twitter because I told her my experience growing up.
Thankfully I do not live there anymore, but growing up, my family was the only 'white' family on a mostly black and ethnic minority estate. It was something else. We got whistled at, had slurs called (which I will not be repeating as I am pretty sure I would be in trouble!) and the climax of it all was our house was bricked and windows smashed, our bikes stolen...the MP was involved and we had to be relocated.
We spent years thinking what was wrong - was it the fact we were struggling to get a job? No, because it was a council estate. Was it due to the fact my dad was a job coach? No, because his job centre was in the next city along.
So, we were moved and we all unanimously agreed, maybe we were at the end of a racist attack. Now that word is pretty powerful to throw around, but I genuinely think it was. And I see it happening more frequently, that you will be called a 'liar' or ironically 'racist' for even insinuating a thing...
So I wanted to ask your honest opinions - is there such a thing as 'white racism' or is it just 'abuse'? I don't wanna start an argument, but at the same time, I want to open my mind and be more respectful to others mindsets
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Comments
Anybody can suffer prejudice on the grounds of race. Is anti white prejudice a widespread problem in the UK? No. But that doesn't mean that instances of it don't occur.
Apart from being wrong, prejudice on the grounds of physical attributes is simply stupid - there is no scientific basis for race. It's simply a social construct.
Many people argue it doesn't exist. Well it does.
Facebook doesn't believe in it though - I reported something for racism (it was black on white racism) and it came back saying it didn't go against their rules.
Any major company will not believe in it because they will be seen to be racist if they go against blacks or minorities.
I'm supportive of all races, religions and genders.
Racism works both ways and the only people that don't see that are the ones trying to start an argument in the first place.
Racism is simply prejudice or descrimination against an individual or groupe on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group. It's not specific to any race or creed.
And while the example given above by Felix certainly sounds like he was a vicrtim of racial prejudice it woudn't be correct to say that there isa. problem with anti white racism in the UK, because there isn't.
Anti white racism has never been systemic in the UK. That is not true for other
creeds or colours unfortunately.
Racism is just racism really. I mean in certain countries white people are the minority and are treated very badly or given less say. Or someone just with anti-white sentiment. I hear of ppl who are hateful to straight ppl in gay communities so it's kinda like that. Or jokingly the white people do not take spice.. xP
In the UK the white british working class are the least well off however, they are not given special attention or allowed to be given special funds. There was a case where someone wanted to ensure their funds would go to the white poor but it wasn't allowed.
Not sure I would call racism again but it is an issue. Also there are places in the UK where white people are the minority.
"White british working class are the least well off"
I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion. What definition are you using for 'working class' and what do you mean by 'well off'?
"There was a case where someone wanted to ensure their funds would go to the white poor but it wasn't allowed. "
Too right. Keep your racist money.
"Also there are places in the UK where white people are the minority."
So?
Obviously I don't agree with everything in the article but yeah particularly more males, boys.
Yea I can understand the idea that giving only to the white working class boys might not be great as that money could go to other people who are poor who happen to be other races and other sex as well as associations with race privilege. It more brings up the discussion if anything.
There is still the issue though that white working class boys are underperforming in education . They can still be looked at and analysed as a group and acknowledged. A lot of people talk as if class isn't a thing in the UK anymore but it is.
Ofc its not just race issues things like north, south divide in UK or indeed london vs whole of UK. A lot of people feel their concerns are not represented in politics. I mean the poor generally.
As for white people being a minority in some areas that was just a statement just to show that not necessarily are white people the dominant "race" everywhere as some people might think. I don't think its bad or good either way. Just what it is. Some people go into an area and they feel very different to others. Not implying discrimination either way.
Any group of people can experience racial prejudice or discrimination. However, racism refers to that prejudice in addition to the socialized power structures at play. So, not everyone can experience the racism that Black people do because the power dynamic that has existed since the Atlantic Slave Trade is just not equivalent to any other racial experience in the States.
The idea of “reverse racism” ignores the basic reality of who holds more power and privilege by assuming that everyone starts off on an even playing field. Its premise completely disregards any of the overwhelming evidence of institutionalized racism.
For example, “reverse racism” is often cited as the reason for complaints about affirmative action, that white students “lose their seats” in favor of a student of color in order to fulfill a quota. In reality, affirmative action programs were put in place in order to mitigate the results of institutionalized racism, and they work to establish guidelines that find qualified applicants, regardless of their socioeconomic status, race or gender. Affirmative action started with President Lyndon B. Johnson’s Executive Order 11246 in 1965 for hiring practices in government contractors and subcontractors, and further legislation slowly continued since.
The idea that a white student is inherently smarter than a student of color, or inherently a better fit for a school or program, not only exposes a reality of institutionalized racism — that white students might be more prepared for a school because they’ve had the resources and time to prepare them for it but also shows the type of thought that stems from white privilege.
There isn’t one widely accepted definition of white privilege, but organizational consultant Frances E. Kendall calls it “having greater access to power and resources than people of color [in the same situation] do.”
With white privilege comes the “power of normal,” or the power that comes with everything catered to benefit white people. This allows them to move through the world expecting, realistically, every need to be met. This privilege means that white people are more likely to be treated as individuals rather than representatives for a whole group of people or exceptions to racial stereotypes. It also means that white people are less likely to be stopped by law enforcement for “looking suspicious,” less likely to be questioned about financial responsibility and less likely to be imprisoned for possession of marijuana.
White people benefit from this racist system, and they always have. They can live comfortably while people are harmed and discriminated against because of the color of their skin, and this complicity is why Robin DiAngelo, author of “White Fragility,” claims that all white people are inherently racist. They can be nice, yes, and advocate to end racial injustice, but it is only with the dismantling of the centuries-old institutions that run this country can a better future be built: one that isn’t built from slavery and prejudice.
If you are white, don’t let the idea that you are inherently racist because of the system you benefit from make you bitter and defensive. The only way to face this problem is to fight it head-on. There is no more time tacitly to ignore the tentacles of institutionalized racism that reach every corner of American life.
I think that argument (apart from being bollocks) is divisive, over simplistic and ultimately counterproductive.
I think racism is used to fill a narrative tbqh. My bf when he was in primary school was put into a racism book. You want to know what happened? He was called a white Christian bastard so he turned round and said "so what? You're a Muslim" and that was racist but the original comment wasn't racist.
Racism is often taken well out of proportion and honestly look at America. They're a mess - but look at all the poc killed by police - the media makes them out to be angels but in reality there's far more to each and every one of those stories.
Black on black crime causes far more deaths than white on black crime and black on white crime is also excessively high. Black people are a minority in most places yet these numbers are way more disproportionate than you would necessarily expect.
Yes I believe in racism but I believe that it works BOTH ways.
You can't get offended if someone calls you the n word but then straight after it call them a ghost or some other racist shit, it doesn't work like that.
People getting all offended about minor racial issues that give it out the other way.
I've seen an obscene amount of racism directed at white people on social media, and every time I've reported it I get the message saying it doesn't go against the community guidelines. What so racism is okay? Righty then.
I'm just fed up with all these media agendas out to make people all look like dicks. They're writing because it's their job, not because there's a story to be written. They are paid to write the shit that they do, and the more ridiculous the headline, the more interaction it gets.
Live and let live, people just need to love everyone
While assumptions and stereotypes about white people do exist, this is considered racial prejudice, not racism. Racial prejudice refers to a set of discriminatory or derogatory attitudes based on assumptions derived from perceptions about race and/or skin colour. Thus, racial prejudice can indeed be directed at white people (e.g., “White people can’t dance”) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship to power. When backed with power, prejudice results in acts of discrimination and oppression against groups or individuals. In Canada, white people hold this cultural power due to Eurocentric modes of thinking, rooted in colonialism, that continue to reproduce and privilege whiteness. It is whiteness that has the power to define the terms of racialized others’ existence. Tim Wise explains how, for white individuals,
“When a group of people [such as racialized individuals] has little or no power over you institutionally, they don’t get to define the terms of your existence, they can’t limit your opportunities, and you needn’t worry much about the use of a slur to describe you and yours, since, in all likelihood, the slur is as far as it’s going to go. What are they going to do next: deny you a bank loan? Yeah, right. … White perceptions are what end up counting in a white-dominated society. If whites say [Indigenous people] are savages (be they of the “noble” or vicious type), then by God, they’ll be seen as savages. If [Indigenous people] say whites are mayonnaise-eating Amway salespeople, who the hell is going to care? If anything, whites will simply turn it into a marketing opportunity. When you have the power, you can afford to be self-deprecating, after all” (2002).
Ricky Sherover-Marcuse asserts that "we should not confuse the occasional mistreatment experienced by whites at the hands of people of color with the systematic and institutionalized mistreatment experienced by people of color at the hands of whites” (p. 2). While expressions of racial prejudice directed at white people may hurt the white person/people individually or personally, and are never to be condoned, they do not have the power or authority to affect the white person's social/economic/political location and privileges.
“Racism has nothing to do with feelings. It is a measurable reality that white people are not subject to, regardless of their income or status” (Harriot, 2018).
Reverse racism is a myth because it attempts to ignore the power/privilege dynamic between the individuals/groups involved; the myth of reverse racism assumes that racism occurs on a so-called level playing field, when in actuality, it does not. One claim of “reverse racism” that is often made is in relation to affirmative actions programs: programs that were created to help ensure that non-white individuals are given equal consideration and opportunities, whether it is in regards to employment, school, or scholarships etc. For white individuals, programs such as this might feel like something is being “taken away.” Zeba Blay outlines how white people often "believe deserving white students are discriminated against while academically unqualified students are given highly coveted college or company positions ― just because they happen to tick the ‘ethnic minority’ box. This argument ignores the fact that affirmative action did not come out of nowhere ― there was a need for a system that would address the decades of underrepresentation of people of color both academically and in the job world.” Sherover-Marcuse explains how "[a]ffirmative action programs are attempts to repair the results of institutionalized racism by setting guidelines and establishing procedures for finding qualified applicants from all segments of the population” (p. 2). In other words, these programs do not privilege people of colour but are an attempt to “level” the not-so-level playing field that has historically privileged a certain type of candidate.
You should probably look a bit further into why there is a disparity between crime numbers. Correleation is not causation.
Hint: it has nothing directly to do with race.
You have to remember that especially in America, a lot of the things are so deep routed in racism. There's soo much to know at bellow the surface or the iceberg and only are these conversations being talked about. A lot of the time there's just not enough awareness about the social and historical context behind these things because people refuse to do reading or just because they genuinely didn't know.
Irrespective of what a person did, to end up dead in the hands of the police with excessive force isn't something that they're supposed to do. Absolutely modern day lynching and abuse of power. Its absolutely crazy how in those moments people subconsciously (or consciously) quick to demonise black people in those scenarios because of their bias. You need to ask yourself if it was waranted to use that level of excessive force seamingly minor things.
*Again this doesn't apply to all the scenarios but SOME.
But is black on black crime a race related issue or is it just regular crime? In instances with knif crime in london and stop a search with predominantly black people is waranted because of the data because I've seen the data myself.
"People are getting offended by minor issues". They definitely aren't minor its a reoccurring issue and that's thats often rooted in racism. And now that we have the awerreness why is it an issue of being sensitive. All POC want is for boundaries and awareness as to why certain things are not okay and its a weird sense of entitlement when people don't have the decency to respect that.
You did not just compare being called the N word to being called ghost. Abhorrent comment. If somone was to reduce my worth to absolutely nothing by using such an dimishing word, it's waranted to throw something In return.
You have absolutely no idea what the reality of people a POC is like. An accumulation of negative experience will make a person reactive. I can go round and speak to my friends and family and I kid you not they will all have a story of some sort. The reality of being a POC opens you to experiencing a whole bunch of shit that you otherwise wouldn't experience if you hadn't been a POC
Again not everyone's experiences are the same but often there are way too many common occurrences when it comes to POC and what they experience.
This comes up a lot when people are raising issues with BLM. Personally I think the mistake people make is lumping the looters in with the genuine protesters. I would imagine you have two separate kinds of people in those riots - people who are protesting a genuine issue, and opportunists who see the riots as a chance to get away with stealing (which obviously isn't okay). It's possible to see the validity of the protests and genuine social issues while also condemning the looting.
Thinking more empathetically, try and see this through the lens of someone who has experienced racism for their entire life, seeing no political will or system change to stop it. Every single day, you experience and witness racism all around you. You're used to people in your neighborhood dying at the hands of the police, so you've learned not to trust them. Politicians and lawmakers aren't doing enough to keep you safe or improve your quality of life, so you stop having faith in the system. You've spent your life on the poor side of a racially divided wealth gap, through no fault of your own. Eventually, you don't see any other options and you run out of patience, and you just want people to acknowledge the problem.
I'm not saying arson and looting is the right thing to do and I don't think many genuine protesters actually resorted to rioting and looting. But if any of them did, I have empathy for them reaching breaking point and not knowing what else to do. It's easy to look at this stuff and say 'well that's unnecessary' when you're not living that life every single day.
Something you need to keep in mind here is that taking a knee, or making a political protest in any way, puts their careers at risk. A lot of black athletes and sports players just can't afford to risk losing their livelihood. It might look like a free choice but it isn't.
Another example of this is when WNBA players in the US protested the shooting of Jacob Blake by coming out to their game wearing t shirts with bullet holes on the back. They did this without union approval so they were risking a huge amount. The NBA union also approved a list of social justice messages players could wear on their jerseys, which included 'say her name' but not 'Breonna Taylor', which is a whole other level of irony.
Wanting to 'get on with the bloody game' is the definition of privilege. It might have gone on too long for white people, but for the people suffering at the hands of police violence and systemic racism, they don't have the luxury of just moving on when everyone else wants to. People don't protest because they want to; they protest because they have no choice. I'm sure protesters want nothing more than to just play some sport, but they can't. It just isn't that simple.