Avengers: Endgame (spoiler discussion)

JustV

Who's seen it? What did you think?!

Feels like the end of an era.

chubbydumpling

Loved it (well, most of it)

It was great to see some beloved characters finish out their arcs and I'm super excited for Phase 4

JustV

chubbydumpling said:

Loved it (well, most of it)

It was great to see some beloved characters finish out their arcs and I'm super excited for Phase 4

Interesting you say this @chubbydumpling, because I'm super interested to see what comes with the next phase and the next crossovers. I don't know how invested I'm gonna be in it, but it's exciting nonetheless.

What parts didn't you love?

Aidan said:

Even with a few films left it feels like it's over. Character arcs are over and loose ends are tied. It was lots of fan service, simply through the whole premise of the plot

with the time travel and whatnot

 but it was still a good film.

And hopefully because with the time travel to the first avengers when Loki got the tesseract back and escaped, he's still alive somewhere

Korg and Miek's alive!

I tried not to let the 12 year old in me come out in the cinema when Cap caught Mjolnir 

I'd like to say I cried when Tony died literally just after Peter came back, but I was watching it with my mates so I tried my hardest not to, close though

Not sure I liked the changes to Thor- I was rooting for him because of his arc in Infinity War and how much I liked him in Ragnarok- but his parents, brother, best friend, evil sister, planet, and half of the rest of his people died so I'll let it slide xD

Liked his new beard in the last battle though

And with what Cap did at the end, does this mean we can get a spin-off now where he's back in the 40s?

I agree on the fan service, @Aidan, though honestly I feel like the franchise has earned the right to do that. It seemed to fit nicely into the plot they'd come up with, and it did make for a very epic finale.

I thought the time travel was a pretty neat way to wrap up stories and pay homage to some old characters. It was pretty awesome seeing the Ancient One again.

Someone was telling me the other day, apparently they've confirmed a Loki series? Might tie in with his disappearance in Endgame. Would be interesting if we got a Cap spin-off, but honestly I can't see them bringing back any of the OG avengers at all now.

Cap catching Mjolnir was not something I expected to see. I found it a bit weird at first and started to nitpick it, but honestly who could be more worthy? I've made peace with it now, haha. And the way he catches it before that final battle as well.

I spent probably the last half an hour (basically from when that first portal opened and you just see Black Panther's silhouette) to the end credits absolutely bawling my eyes out. So many things I didn't expect to feel. Also really enjoyed the signature credits - that was a nice send off.

Re: Thor, this was a weird one for me. There was something about the way they were playing his new look for humour that didn't really land for me - kinda feels like Marvel should be above that sort of comedy. That said, I do like how they rolled with it for the whole film and just made that his new image. Thor pulls off the big and beardy thing very well.

Overall I think they cut a lot of corners and a lot of things happened for convenience/fan service, but I'm okay with it. Does sort of feel like it's marked the end of my childhood!

davcr0ck

I went to watch it but fell asleep halfway through, so I'm gonna watch it with my boyfriend over the half term 

chubbydumpling

I can't wait for a lot of the things they have planned, @Mike!

The new Spider-Man movie seems to be suggesting the possibility of a multiverse which paves the way for some of my favourite characters like Ironheart and Miles Morales, and maybe even another universe's Fantastic Four and X-Men. With the sequels to Captain Marvel and Black Panther confirmed, and Shang-Chi being fast-tracked for development, I'm already really hopeful that this Phase is going to be more diverse than ever. 

I guess a few things about Endgame didn't sit well with me. The handling of Thor's PTSD, the fatphobia etc was pretty below the belt for Marvel. I honestly expect better at this point, especially considering how well they handled Tony's whole arc. 

I'll admit I also didn't love Steve's ending. Mainly because it makes zero sense in terms of his character development and the mechanics of time travel that were set up in the movie. Even the Russos and the writers don't agree on how the ending can be interpreted. Although I am beyond excited to see Sam take up the mantle of Captain America. 

Dancer

BORING! 

Italia

Hello! 

A little late to the party, but I loved so much about this movie!  Generally Marvel's been doing really well with representation in their movies lately, and it really is quite empowering.  

I've loved reading your thoughts (even that you thought it was boring @Kasa2103 , totally valid opinion).  

@chubbydumpling I found something you said super interesting.. 

chubbydumpling said:

I guess a few things about Endgame didn't sit well with me. The handling of Thor's PTSD, the fatphobia etc was pretty below the belt for Marvel. I honestly expect better at this point, especially considering how well they handled Tony's whole arc. 

Thor is one of my favs, and I was really looking forward to watching him be the hero in this movie, so initially I was disappointed too.   Your right in that he was clearly struggling with PTSD in the movie. 

Your comment got me thinking a little, and @Mike and I ended up chatting about how refreshing it was to see one of our strongest hero's struggle with mental illness.   There were a few cool moments in the movie, where this was managed so well. 

Even though Thor was clearly having a rough time, his mates still included him and he still had a really important role.  

When Thor went back in time, and he called his hammer it still came, because even though he was struggling, he is still worthy 

Once he was feeling better, Marvel didn't make him thin and buff again, they just made his suit to fit him with the extra weight, and he was still a total hero in the final battle.

Thinking about it in this light, just brought a whole new element to the movie for me, so I wanted to share.  Would love to hear your thoughts  

chubbydumpling

I couldn't agree more, @Italia!

Initially, I was super disappointed. I still think it could have been handled better. We were clearly expected to laugh at Thor's reintroduction, and that made me incredibly uncomfortable. Especially given that Tony's previous malnutrition was framed as being similarly unhealthy but no one was expected to laugh at that. 

However, I really did like that Thor's mental health was addressed positively for all the reasons you've described. He's a great character and I'm really looking forward to where Hemsworth takes his development. 

Italia

Hey @chubbydumpling

I totally agree with you on that!  It was intentionally framed up as a comedy, and perhaps not that well thought through.   I hold hope that media will keep working towards taking mental health seriously, its a slow process, but we are getting there.  I think in order for that to happen, we need people to highlight when it hits the wrong note!  Thanks for being that person  

I am excited for future Thor moments as well, he really is a great character.  

JustV

Playing devil's advocate about the Thor/weight issue: is it possible that the contrast was played for humor rather than the actual state he was in? In the same way we might laugh if Cap gave up working out, lost all his bulk, and couldn't open a pickle jar - maybe it's because the change is so dramatic and so unexpected? I don't know how I feel about it, but that point did occur to me.

I will admit though, I genuinely wasn't sure whether the movie wanted me to laugh or have sympathy during certain moments. Particularly when Thor has the panic attack in Asgard. Then, there may be an argument to be made about being able to laugh at difficult things, and that not being a bad thing.

Regardless, the fact they kept him that size, fully embraced it, and gave him that moment of catching Mjolnir and realising his self-worth, I thought did the character (and the issue) justice. I also take your point @chubbydumpling about Stark's change not being played for comedy.

My favourite portrayal of trauma in the MCU so far is probably Tony's PTSD in Iron Man 3. He has nightmares, flashbacks, and gets panic attacks - particularly when he doesn't have the safety and security of his suits. The whole film is about him growing through it all and facing his demons, and it's quite beautiful for an MCU movie.

Re: Cap's ending, I actually completely understand his decision to 'retire' and have a 'normal life' with Peggy. I think he earned that right, and I can understand feeling too tired to keep doing the superhero thing after everything he's been through. Is that not something you'd expect of the character @Aidan?

That said, the time travel issue was... interesting. When the Ancient One explains time travel and different realities, she does only say 'the infinity stones create what you know as the flow of time', and then says that if you remove one of them, you create an alternate timeline. So if you don't mess with the infinity stones (which Cap didn't), do you just stay in that same timeline?