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Hmmm....I know...
But sometimes it reveals things about the offender the jury should know. Surely the facts of the past are related to the crime on trial, if they have previously offended? I know people who have been on juries (not stupid, sun-reading people) and they felt they should have seen the previous convictions.
But obviously it's still disallowed for a reason, which I can see the obvious impairments on the justice system and right to a fair trial. It's just that sometimes emotion is involved...
...but I don't believe emotion should lead to people demanding the death penalty and immediate life sentences.
Your right every case is difererent but at the end of the day RAPE is RAPE so all people found guilty of rape should be treat the same as far as sentencing. Wether he rapes 1 woman or 20 women all these women will go through the same feelings.
Rape or murder what would i prefer? well after having been raped some years ago I can tell you id prefer murder any way. The pshychological effects after rape were very traumatic at the time and for quite some time after. Have you ever felt so scared, frightened of living in a street where your abuser lived? where his family lived and having to see them in the street? have you ever had to go to into an office for a meeting and be scared shitless because it was a man on his own? I had to go to the council after my rape because I needed to be rehoused as I lived in the area of my attacker, I was seen by a male on his own , in his office and I was seriously very scared, nervous and was glad to get out of that office.
Rape *fucks* up the victim straight away, you feel dirty, you feel cheap and most of all you feel so alone. Your head is screwed up. You dont feel you can trust men. Your relationship can suffer sexually afterwards. Years later something can happen and trigger something off it could be something someone says and the rape all comes back again. So you see you dont actually get over it although you learn to cope with it. You learn to start trusting again and eventually you get to the stage where I am today which is that *BASTARD* is not going to keep abusing me, while he is still in my head he is still having *control and power* well that *BASTARD* aint gonna keep having something on me.
So what do we do with rapists? Any rapist, forget about why they did it or how many times they did it, forget about any conviction in the past because at the end of the day *RAPE* means rape. So I say lock the *BASTARDS* up and throw away the key !!!!!
However I do believe in judging and sentencing each case individually. Just in the same way as not all murders are the same not all rapes are the same.
In the 'burglars' rights' thread you seemed to imply that under the circumstances Tony Martin was in it is understandable to murder someone. I don't know what your thoughts on his punishment are but I would guess you would consider it excessive if Martin had been given life without parole.
Yet I'm sure the families of murder victims would tell you that a murder is a murder and that all murderers without exception should be locked and the key thrown away. Just what you have demanded of rapists.
I hope you get my drift. I'm not trying to trivialise the crime of rape or anything. I'm just saying that repugnant as the crime might be we must overcome the urge of having tabloid-induced kneejerk reactions because not every case is the same.
We are not talking murder we are talking rape which I have 1st hand knowledge of what its like, I know what it can do to people and I know that it can screw some people up for many years later.
Rape is having intercourse with someone without consent so then if I am raped the attacker should be sentenced for the rape. If the attacker also attacks me physically then he should then have that added onto his sentence.
As ive said all cases are different but rape means rape, the actual rape should carry a much stiffer penalty and regardless of wether someone has raped 10 times or wether they have raped once the victims all still feel the same.
May I ask what sentence you would give a rapist who rapes but does not beat up the person and what sentence for someone who rapes and beats the victim?
Just thinking of anyone having to go through that and then reading people's personal experience is even more harrowing.
There's no doubt rapists should get a lengthy sentence, no doubt at all. I do agree with Aladdin that the different cases should be looked at individually, just because circumstances and offenders are different. The trauma of rape is undeniably painful for every victim of rape hence why it should be taken so seriously. What scares me is when offenders do get short sentences or are released early, have they had any rehabilitation?
What do they offer to victims of rape too? Do you get the offer of counselling or suchlike?
Victims?? oh no we dont need that, the person responsible for the rape gets all the help they are the ones that deserve this so called *rehabilitation*, you know the rehabilitation that works because some can and some do go out and rape again.
It does not matter what crime we talk about the victim gets less help and support compared to the offender.
Things may have changed now, I honestly dont know but back when this happened yes the police were very good with me but basically I was sent home and forgot about, or thats how it felt.
There should be advice and support available straightaway or at least the police should be able to refer victims to someone. And the police wonder why so few people report rape? Some people get treated very poorly by the police when reporting it too.
I didn't mean that the offenders rehabilitation should take priority over the victim's. It's just that if they are going to release rapists I believe they should have rehabilitation before they leave prison, simply imprisonment alone isn't enough. It's going to be very different to any treatment the victim gets too.
So if this so called rehabilitation works why do we have re-offenders?
obviously rehabilitation doesent work in lots of cases. So why waste all that time, money and effort into a no good, loser?
People talk about how much money it costs to keep people in prison but how much does it cost for the rehabilitation which is not guaraneed to work?
Because some people are shit basically.
I don't know how much it costs, I was just saying if they are going to release a rapist I'd want them to have at least tried to rehabilitate them. Because with our system it's inevitable some are going to be released.
Well we cant mess the system any more than it already is :rolleyes:
Can you tell me why when my hubby got fined for speeding he got more than someone who had been done before? My hubby was fined and given points on his licence and yet someone else got less than him and this person had been done for speeding previously ?
But the judge knows best doesent he, because he has 30 + years law experience hasnt he :rolleyes:
most crimes of violence should be punished with some kind of violence in my book. and ...it just happens that rapists, child molesters and those who hurt the old and infirm ...and especialy rapists do get just that.
the screws and the cons device all kinds of mean punishments but becuase of the way things have to be done not all of them get it.
something has to be put in place to deter crime and criminals.
the criminal in my view should experience some of the pain that he has inflicted. simple to say but difficult to im0plement.
I certainly would not give the same sentence to a rapist in the situation I put forward- a couple already engaged in drunken consenting intercourse where the woman asks the man to stop and the man doesn't- than to a serial rapist who forces women on the street. Would you?
Depending on the circumstances of the former case I'd be happy for the man to get 10 years or more. The latter though simply should be locked up for a minimum of 15-20 years, and then if there are no guarantees that he won't re-offend he should remain inside for life.
And unfortunately as with politicians the longer someone spends in their specialised field of law or politics the more they become detached from what life is like in the real world. If you look at the statistics you will find that most judges are white, male, middle class and privately educated; there are also very few judges in the senior levels who didn't go to Oxbridge. Now this could hardly be said to give them the breadth of experience of different lifestyles in this country to enable them to throughly understand what people's lives are really like - victims and defendants alike. This may be a reason why although black people make up only 4% of the British population they actually make up about 20% of those in prison.
Surely the British justice system is about delivering verdicts that most British people would approve of in a democracy subject to the constraints of Parliament? I think you'd find very few people in this country are satisfied with the way judges set their sentences despite the government increasingly encouraging judges to reach harsher verdicts to match what the British people see as a fair sentence. When you say "real people would mess the entire judicial system up" what you mean is that they'd reach sentences most people deemed fair. Why do we include punishment in the justice system if not for revenge?
For every silly old duffer who demands punishment beatings and hanging brought back there's a bleeding heart liberal who's already determined to let the villain off the hook. I would let anyone into the courtroom if they've been served with Jury Duty notices which is the beauty of the British justice system - trial by jury however undesirable certain people would deem these people to be. Juries are made up of people from all walks of life, all ages, classes and educational ability and so are much more able to pass sentence and judge a case than a judge. Case law is simple enough - a similar case occurred in the past and brought judgment X therefore we should judgement X as a guide for how things work. We could even use judges to provide the knowledge of case law and then let the jury decide the sentence. That would restore faith in the British justice system.
I will never let go of the hate that I have for the bastard, NEVER will I be able to do that. He put me through hell and im to forgive him? Your having a laugh.
Ive got over it now, I do trust men and im not scared to be alone with them but after what he did to me I didnt even dare go into the pub because I just felt fellas were watching me, it was a horrible feeling not knowing who to trust and who not to.
As I said in a previous post rape should have a set sentence, be it 10 or 12 years but for the actual rape they should have a stiff sentence. If you are physically attacked in an alleyway then raped the rapist should get the sentence for the rape and for the other attack I think there should be another 5 year added on.
As I said rape is rape so wether you are raped in the street, in a field or in your house its still rape and the rapists should all be treat the same and given a stiff sentence for the rape.
So anyone care to talk to me about rehabilitation? I know some posters are happy with the rehabilitation of sex convicts , so to these people I ask why do we have repeat offenders? Why have some women been attacked and raped by someone with previous convictions, raped by someone who fooled and conned the system by appearing as if they were rehabilitated.
BOTH are reprehensible. OK one does not necessarily die after being raped, still the emotional pain caused by it (I would imagine) is tremendous. I don't believe anybody has the right to do something like that to anyone else.
Both rape and murder violate a person's rights.
You cant, but the question was asked and I replied.
How I see it is that if I were murdered then I would not suffer once I was dead, when being raped you suffer, suffer and still suffer, until you reach the point where you will not let the rapist still have that power and control and just let go. Having said that its still with you, you can still remember what was said, you can still remember what he did, but you get on with life and just learn to cope.
but that is just my personal opinion
Thank you
Yeah well, this is how i feel it ripped me apart inside out, and i would pick death anyday, i know it sounds stupid but it is what i think and feel
Well that may be your opinion but I will continue to beg to differ with you.
I understand where you're coming from. and agree with you that yes; murder means the end of your life, but to many people - so does rape.
I will never ever get my life back from my attack - not just physchologically, but physically. Because now I have a daughter that I have to look after and care for and dedicate my life to. Im only 18, and for the past 2 years, and nine months previous to that, my life has been stolen away from me through no fault of my own. And yes, you could say I could have had an abortion, you could say that I could have given her up for adoption, but like many many many other victims; i did not tell my friends or family about the attack. I was 15, and scared, and stupid not to. In their eyes, I had gotten myself pregnant and so I had to deal with the situation - without 'running away' from it.
So for me, my attack may aswell have been death, because although I do not want to die, I do not have a 'life' as such. Every day my life is affected physically by what happened to me, and some days its torture it really is. Dont get me wrong, I love my daughter to pieces, but I know that one day she is going to grow up, and will almost definitely want to know the truth, or I will feel the necessity for her to know - and so im just trying to make the most of her innocence and love while i know that i still have it. Im trying to do all I possibly can for her, and I hope i've done that right thing. But I believe my atacker deserves to rot in hell for what he's done; he's not only distroyed my life, but my daughter's too. He deserves as much as would be given to murderer, if not more.
Im going to sound absolutely awful, and I dont mean to be, but that is exactly why victimes should NOT decide punishments. If the "person" who attacked you was tried, and you got to choose the sentence, it would not be objective- it would be revenge.
The lesser violence would deserve a slightly less harsh sentence, but it should not be the only sentencing consideration. How the rape was committed, whom it was against (i.e. a rape of a 9 year old girl is worse than that of a fully-grown woman, though only just), and so on should all count towards sentencing too.
After all, it is not as severe a crime to continnue going after consent is withdrawn than it is to grab some girl off a dark footpath. ALL rapists should be sentenced stiffly, because it is an awful crime, but there si no "one size fits all" approach to any crime. After all, a woman who stabs her husband because he beats her doesnt deserve the same sentence as a woman who stabs her husband to get his inheritance, and rape is not different once the emotion of the crime is removed, as it has to be in a court of law.
And instead of the men raping women with their penises they sued implements such as glass bottles. Sexual gratification is only one part of the thrill of the act, its mostly about control, power, domination and often about actually "getting even" with women- especially with the serial rapists like Fred West.
Of course I want revenge, I want him to suffer just like he made me suffer. I want him to have to be locked away for a long time and think about what he did, why he did it to me, how he left me feeling. I want him to be kept away from other women so he cant go and do the same to them.
I have never been arrested for anything, im a law abiding citizen wondering why we have so many constant reoffenders, I want the reoffenders to learn a lesson and never go out and do that crime again. In my view the only way to stop them doing serious crimes is to make the prison sentence a lot more stiffer, make it a lot harder for them while they are inside and not let them have luxuries such as stereos, tv etc.
They did the crime so if they are that hard and clever they should do the time.........The full time, no getting released for good behaviour, if they have been sentenced to 10 years make them do 10 years !!!
But justice cannot work like that, it cannot be "an eye for an eye" because a neutrals version of suffering will, in all likelihood, differ greatly from the victims idea of suffering for the offender. Because emotionally I agree that violent rapists should be hurt physically, and punished by physical pain, but in a civilised society this cannot be allowed to happen otherwise justice cannot happen.
Justice is there to punish the guilty, and to reform them; it is not there to get revenge for the victims. Otherwise we might as well all become Saudi and chop peoples hands off for stealing bread.