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If they catch Sadam...then what?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
I heard an interesting point rasied on the Today program this morning, if Sadam is caught or killed, then the reason for the US being in Iraq suddenly could disapear somewhat.
They would turn from a force helping a struggling country to an invading force (or at least more so).
But its unthinkable that the US would just pack up and leave.
They would turn from a force helping a struggling country to an invading force (or at least more so).
But its unthinkable that the US would just pack up and leave.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Everything is has merely been one long parade of lies, spin and reversals. The dance of the soundbites, as it were, all too readily gobbled up by a gullible and largely uninformed (or at best misinformed) public.
Whether they get Saddam now or not is irrelevant, their claws are well dug in to the Iraqi soil and nothing short of ousting the protagonist himself and his cronies at the next election will change that.
If Saddam is caught it will be as much of a blow to the forces who benefited from his reign as we could hope for. Iraq will become a democracy...despite terrorists or Baathists who are being paid thousands by Syria and other countries to kill soldiers.
The benefit of the war is exactly this: it put the Arab world on notice. Read for yourself the changes Saudi Arabia has made to its laws. Whabbi clerics are still allowed to preach on Fridays, however, if they preach anti-Western or anti-American hatred they are removed. Saudi Arabia has also promised to spread the wealth and education more evenly in the country. I think they will because they don't want Al Qaeda to force the royal family out. The Muslim world is finally taking responsibility for its part in encouraging extremism. And the United States, with liberals leading the way, are ensuring we don't become Islamaphobic. I know we won't because welcoming people from all religions is a core American value...we learn about it over and over in school.
Only gullible Fox News junkies with enough intelligence to comprehend Jerry Springer still believe the ridiculous spin you regurtitate so well.
PNJ - actually I don't think that is PNJ but the jocko as Clan said. Anyway, whoever you are, European countries have infinitely more worth to the world than America; we have thousands of years of rich history, our languages are spoken by most countries in the world (including your own hence ENGLISH), we came up with cultural greats like Mozart and Shakespeare, we invented the telephone and the television. America has money, granted, but all the money in the world can't buy you history or class. The American Dream has been proved to be nothing more than a lie - its spiritualism is empty and the promise that anyone can achieve anything is a cruel joke, money begets money in America hence why you end up with Bush junior, a man who couldn't even run a whelk stall as President.
As for Iraq, Iraq was a great civilisation before your continent was even discovered. You haven't caught bin Laden and your own reports now suggest that 9/11 was "preventable" says a lot about the efficiency of the American security services. Also let's examine the effiency of the American army - despite spending more than the rest of the western world put together on defence, your missiles cannot hit their targets and you will only go to war against another nation when you can massively overpower them because you're scared of a fair fight and even then you can still get defeated such as in Vietnam. You even have to invent your own heroes in this conflict such as Jessica Lynch, how sad is that?
Who the hell are you to put the Arab world "on notice"? So the changes in Saudi Arabia encouraged by the self-proclaimed "Home of liberty" actually reduces free speech because it says stuff you don't want to hear - why not listen to their grievances instead of shutting them up? Saudi Arabia will not spread the wealth more evenly in its country because the shiekhs have so much to lose from sharing their power, it is their distance from the mass of the Saudi people that keeps them in power. America is Islamaphobic - take PNJs posts on here for an example and for another example why not look at the British muslim couple who were in New York on holiday, a bus driver refused to serve them because they were muslim and when they asked for the management he called over the New York Police who harassed them and arrested them for no reason other than wanting to go on a tourist bus.
Another jealous and resentful European left winger , they are the ones who caused the schism between the US and Europe , you should all be locked away.
Europe has a rich and colourful history , we are in agreement there , but Europe is aging , it is not the future , it is a dying continent.
Europe - an old , godless , squabbling continent full of jealous and corrupt bureaucrats.
I really regret having to say this about the continent in which I live , but , alas , it is true.
The bigger issue is for the Iraqi people to know we are there to set up a democracy and leave. That's why I feel there should be more international involvement and I was glad to see power being transfered over to the group of Iraqis leading Iraq until elected officials can be put in place by the Iraqis.
Most Iraqis realise by now that we are not there for their best interests but for our own, namely the oil. The "ruling council" set up by Washington is recognised for the illegitimate puppet it is, being comprised mostly of irrelevant Dearborn Michigan cronies of Bush who have no legitimate connection to the true Iraqi people.
Far more likely that those now fighting come from all walks of Iraqi society, Sunni and Shiite and simply are doing what you or any of our countrymen would do if foreign soldiers were occupying our cities, towns and neighbourhoods and serving to protect an imposed regime.
Good to see you've swallowed the Daily Mail's law and order policies in one gulp. First of all lock away the Communists and Socialists, then the trade unionists, then the Catholics, then the Jews... hang on this sounds familiar!
Explain why we are a dying continent? I feel in perfect health myself. Seriously though, Europe has never had so much creativity and originality or so much guts to speak out for what we believe, I think we're moving forward not dying. America isn't the future either, the amount of hostility they have built up and their policy of self destruction followed by the Bush admin means that the America you idolise isn't the future anymore. I think you'd better brush up on your Chinese...
Old? With age comes wisdom. Godless, your point? When you see the amount of trouble religion causes good on us for getting rid of that outdated nonsense. Squabbling - I'd rather have a society where you can express your opinions and get into positive debates rather than the American way where you are pressured into adopting the official line and snubbed if you don't. I doubt the number of bureaucrats in Europe is above 250,000 out of a population of 250million that's hardly anything.
You could always do us and yourself a favour and move.
You need to get some real information instead of that Sun or Daily hate Mail crap you inundate yourself with.
The schisms between the US and the EU are the responsibility solely of an ignorant and worldly unwise Neo-Con US administration hellbent on ignoring international law and doing whatever it wants to do, whatever the cost to human lives, and lashing out with rhetorical labels at any who take them to task for it.
Personally, I'm adopting the conga line. One, two, three kick. One, two, three kick. :wave:
As for Bureacracies, the bureacracy of the EU institutions (not those of the various national governments themselves) which is often the target of inflammatory remarks from the sorts of bogus journalism that Mat susbscribes to, actually comprises only about 1/5 of the total number of bureacrats in Whitehall.
We wont even touch on the monstrously extensive bureacracy that oversees the US in Washington and the surrounding area.
I will. They are a pain in the *&^%$#! I polish the brass on some of their yachts for money. That's why I bought ice cream and ate the whole pint next to wear they jog.
no ...you realy believe this kind of shit ...irony ...irony? forget it.
What about the vacuum that would be left?
The Iraqis are not backward uneducated people and have more than sufficient capacity to determine for themselves what their future gvernance will be, even if they (of their own majority will) choose a theocratic future. It would certainly be more legitimate than the dictates of a council imposed by Washington and comprised of mostly illegitimate longtime pampered exiles from Dearborn, Michigan.
Given the incompetence of American troops in peacekeeping and the hatred they inspire in the Iraqi people I would have thought peacekeeping and reconstruction would be a whole easier if American troops weren't involved.
The Americans could always withdraw their armed forces to their bases within the region but outside the Iraqi bases, if they wish to contribute civilian help in the shape of medical, engineering and financial assistance I can't see many people having a problem with that.
The UN in Cyprus, Bosnia and the Lebanon for example has a vast experience in peace-keeping operations.