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Dr David Kelly
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,722 Bot
The police has all but confirmed that the body found this morning is that of Dr. David Kelly, the UN inspector at the centre of the war between the government and the BBC. Full story
His death (if confirmed) is tragic news indeed. But what happened? No details are known yet of possible cause of death. Some has suggested this was a man under great pressure. The government has been desperately trying to locate the 'source' that told the BBC Downing Street had sexed up the Iraq dossier. Did he buckle under the pressure and commit suicide?
Or do I dare to imagine a much more sinister possibility? This man obviously knew many things from his career as a UN inspector and his relations with the Ministry of Defence...
In either case, this is the worst possible news for the government, and something that will draw even more attention to the Iraq dossier issue.
His death (if confirmed) is tragic news indeed. But what happened? No details are known yet of possible cause of death. Some has suggested this was a man under great pressure. The government has been desperately trying to locate the 'source' that told the BBC Downing Street had sexed up the Iraq dossier. Did he buckle under the pressure and commit suicide?
Or do I dare to imagine a much more sinister possibility? This man obviously knew many things from his career as a UN inspector and his relations with the Ministry of Defence...
In either case, this is the worst possible news for the government, and something that will draw even more attention to the Iraq dossier issue.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
The truth behind the facade we call "democracy".
I hope the government will stop acting so cocky now and looking for scapegoats when everybody knows they exaggerated (to put it mildly!) the threat Iraq posed. For what's worth I believe he committed suicide- the other possibility is sickening beyond belief- but this was an avoidable death. A senseless loss of a man with an impeccable record who found himself in the path of the mighty Downing Street spin and political machine.
Get it in your head once and for all: the BBC is not biased, or anti-American, or anti-Blair. The only people capable of actually killing someone to protect themselves are the government and the secret services. As it has been proven in Northern Ireland.
"After questioning Dr Kelly earlier this week, the Commons foreign affairs select committee said it was "most unlikely" he was the main source for the BBC story."
Hmmm...even if he did commit suicide, I strongly suspect it was this fracas that led him to it. It's all very correlational and coincidental.
His poor family.
Did anyone watch State of Play? Eerie resonations.
Or perhaps is that he knew very well what the government has been up to and the information it chose to withhold in order to fight its case. So even though he was not the BBC mole he was fully aware of government wrongdoings. Perhaps his loyalty prevented him from blowing the whistle himself, and he could not live with the burden of knowing the truth and doing nothing about it.
Or perhaps our government/secret services will stop at nothing to protect themselves.
Whistleblowers, regardless of the truth and accuracy of their revelations have much to fear from power hungry political establishments hellbent on avoiding the exposure of their illicit activities and agendas.
Take Daniel Ellsberg, the CIA operative who leaked the Pentagon Papers to the NY Times back in the early 70's and blew the lid off the lies of the Vietnam War and the systemic agenda of the Pentagon and various government agencies to routinely defraud the American public as well as their willingness to employ the most horrendously criminal acts to further their political interests.
Or try recalling the article i posted the link to not long ago about Mordechai Vanunu who continues to languish in an Israeli prison indefinitely for exposing the truth behind Israel's hidden WMD development.
Basically this man had much to fear if it became known that he was the whistleblower. Don't be so naive as to think the truth will set you free when it comes to holding our leaders accountable!
Yes, Andrew Gilligan, by his own account, only met with on MoD official and based his "story" on that meeting.
By a strange quirk of co-incidence it was on the same day that he met Dr Kelly (by his own admission) - a MoD official.
Not that the two meetings are linked of course. :rolleyes:
~~~~~~~
On a separate point, my sympathy goes to his family.
Congratulations! It took you a whole nine minutes (from Aladdin's original post) to pin this one on the UK/US Govts...
Surely a record?
k:thumb:
Your links are good.
If they are as shrewd as I expect, and undoubtedly the intelligence services are if not our actual leaders, then i suspect they see a slippery slope looming ahead. If the truth of this set of lies is finally confirmed, how long before the meatier investigations into 9/11, the anthrax scares, collusion on WMD sales and other horrendous indictments are given new life?
Knocking off the odd informant on "national security" grounds is nothing new and you shouldnt take me to task for pointing that out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3079787.stm
There is still something ever so unsettling about it though. Those who beared such great pressure and scrutiny on him should be feeling ashamed right now.
"But Mr Blair would only express his "deep sorrow" for Dr Kelly and his family and stressed:"We should make our judgement after we get the facts.""
Blair's hypocrisy has reached paramount. :mad:
There is something very unsettling about this and to be honest it makes me ashamed to be a supporter of the same party that Blair heads and as a Briton to have a government that could push a man to kill himself.
I think the "wait til the judicial inquiry reports" message from the government is little more than a cynical exercise to buy some time to think of a decent excuse also the "wait for the facts" is extremely hypocritical coming from the man who encouraged Dr Kelly to be pinpointed as Gilligan's source without any evidence - a "fall guy" as I think Andrew Mackinlay put it in the Foreign Affairs Select Committee.
But what do you expect from the man who said the UN inspectors were taking too long to do their job and then asks for more time when it is he who is now responsible for finding WMD.
As for who should resign over this, I don't think anyone can blame the BBC - it is common journalistic practice not to reveal your sources and to get them to deny it was Dr Kelly would just have launched a witch hunt until there came the suspected source the BBC could not clear. I don't think anyone can blame the MPs on the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, they only asked the questions that they should have. I don't even think that you can blame Alastair Campbell or Geoff Hoon because they were only obeying orders from the man who should resign, one Tony Blair.
Blair has blood on his hands, not only the blood of innocent Iraqi civilians he murdered, but the blood of the British troops who went to war on false pretences and now the blood of an innocent man who was murdered for the sake of Blair's "integrity" which was pursued with zeal by Blair and those around him.
> Clan, I don't think he died for Blair's ambition, he died for Blair's vanity which is infinitely worse. Dr Kelly died because Blair's vanity could not handle him being called a liar, because Blair wanted to bask in those eighteen standing ovations from Congress, because Blair wants his infinitely precious place in history to be unsullied by such matters as lying to Parliament, the British people and the world.
I have to say that the New Statesman portrait of Blair as a psychopath seems to have hit the nail on the head. This is a truly sad and horrific affair.
There is no way I am voting Labour if it is Blair who still heads them; the man is a selfish, thoughtless and ignoble hypocrite.
I hope this event and previous disagreements within the Labour party evoke them to re-think their position, values and integrity.
I would personally not excuse the select committee members however, as you have suggested above. From reports on the proceedings it was precisely their targetted, derisive and cynical remarks which put Dr. Kelly in an embarrassing corner and made him out to be a fool before his peers and colleagues.
For a quiet and private man such as he this was only further shame to that he already undoubtedly felt being called to question on an otherwise unimpeachable professional record.
I do agree that perhaps the altar of Blair's vanity does have more relevance than his ambition. I can but applaud your burst of linguistic flair for the searing indictment of the hollowness of Blair's character that it is.
*Stands to applaud*
Thanks for the compliments Clan (and Elysium too!), I guess I was inspired by the sense that something has gone very wrong with the state of this country. I've been following the normal hurly burly of politics since the 1997 election campaign and I've never seen politics in this country end up in a situation like this - I thought this kind of thing was limited to South American corrupt republics.
I think the select committee just asked him the questions that they were there to do, who put him before the select committee? Hoon, under orders from Blair methinks. Personally, I couldn't see much wrong with their line of questioning, it didn't seem to me to be especially harsh, in fact I remember the news bulletins of the day mentioning how well Dr Kelly had appeared to take the interrogation. On the day of the interrogation it seemed that Dr Kelly had been proved innocent and had come out of it well and it was the government who were in trouble.
It's just a shame that a good man had to die like this. I saw the news conference in Japan on the news a few hours ago - Blair just seemed to not care, his message of condolence seemed false, he seemed unfazed at the suggestion he has blood on his hands - he looked more upset for himself as opposed to anyone else. What was it The New Statesman said? "Blair has the ability to disconnect himself from the consequences of his actions like a chameleon." I think this was a prima facie example.
I would like to see an orchestrated campaign to force Blair out of office like the Anti Poll Tax demonstrations in 1990, I know if I hear of any demonstrations with a call to get Blair out of office I will be there at the front!
I think the newspapers are already going after him now, the newspaper reporters are apparantly furious at Blair continually dodging being questioned such as the briefing occuring during landing in Tokyo to restrict the time available, the limiting of the British press to 2 questions and the "blood on his hands" outburst at the press conference seems to indicate this. Plus apparantly Blair is terrified of facing the press without Alastair there to hold his hand, Paul Routledge referred to a time in the early halcyon days of government when Campbell was late for a press conference and Blair got cornered by all the cameras - apparantly he was like a rabbit in headlights and kept asking "Where's Alastair? Where's Alastair?"
Not another literary marvel like my earlier post but it is midnight!
Of course I agree that Dr. Kelly did maintain his composure throughout which only spoke higher of the man's stalwart character.
These kinds of witchhunts however, only further my contention that the system has been turned upside down with those who reveal the wrongdoing of elected leaders being the ones villified rather than protected by the public whilst those exposed are all too often allowed to further abuse their power (i.e. the full power of the state) to try to dodge, divert and dismiss the revelations rather than be subject to thorough public enquiry themselves and indicted for betrayal of the public trust.
May Tony be the first domino to topple and may his fall reach across the pond to strike down his political master and those who surround him each in their turn.
I think the trouble with the parliamentary committees, especially during the Gilligan interrogation is that it is filled with a large majority of ambitious Labour MPs, not just those eager and actively seeking promotion but the silent majority who don't want to rock the boat. Hence accusations of a "Hanging jury". This isn't usually a problem but this situation added to Blair's contempt of Parliament and its procedures makes this damaging to our democracy - I hope the oppositions demands for a full and OPEN inquiry into not only Dr Kelly's death but the whole Iraq situation and for a recall of Parliament are met but I think Blair will just ignore these demands as usual. His unwillingness to face questioning by the press and Parliament says more about his role than those 18 standing ovations in Congress, I can say that much.
Amen to Tony toppling! There are many things I and probably most of the British public could forgive of our political masters - honest mistakes of judgement, ignorance of a full situation, sheer incompetence but the thing I cannot stand is a leader who does not have the nation's best intentions at heart - even if they are wrong - Blair I don't believe has ever had this nations best intentions at heart, I think his term of office has been one long exercise in his vanity. I used to think he did have a mission but I don't think he does, I don't know why he's in the Labour Party, I don't know why he introduces policies such as tuition fees and foundation hospitals - more and more I think that this is solely for the boost to his ego when he defeats his party into submission. What I wouldn't give to swap him for Gordon Brown, Ken Livingstone or Helen Clark PM of New Zealand right now.
The very nature of government in a free and democratic republic (or any other manifestation of a democracy based society) is that it is to serve the public from which it derives its mandate.
It's high time we reminded the political establishment that it does not exist for the sake of furthering its own hidden agendas nor for capitalising upon for personal power, financial gain or glory.
One way of doing this is to resume public control of the process of governance and accountability by removing the executive from the equation when it comes to chairing independent enquiries. No executive (US or UK) should have any say whatsoever in either the creation nor the composition of any public enquiry. This should be the purview of the Parliament/Congress with full and open scrutiny throughout by both the general public and the judiciary in order to ensure that
1. The process and the proceedings are completely transparent
and
2. No powerful vested interests, political party bias, nor the oft eclectic sentiments of the general public may singularly dominate the direction of those charged to carry out the enquiry.
If politicans and heads of state knew that they faced mechanism out their direct ability to control or ifluence when called to account for their actions, I suspect we'd see government measuring up closer to the principle "of the people, by the people and for the people" as it was intended to be certainly in the US if not the UK.
I didn't take you to task for that, I just mentioned the speed at which you appeared to blame the "intelligence" services for the incident.
At that time there was no confirmation it was him
No details of the cause of death had been given, there for no suspicion could be placed
Oh, and you didn't seem to give a hot about the people he'd left behind. You gave the impression that the incident was a chance to make a political point.
That was why I commented on your post. I certainly wasn't questioning the capabilities of Govt to kill people to husha story. One only has to look at the JFK assassination to see how effective they can be...
BTW No blame for the BBC? Who are you trying to kid kevlar? If it wasn't for Mr Gilligan's apparent embellishment of the source's comments then the story wouldn't have been such big news.
I'm not defending the Govt actions here, but please, let's not pretend that the BBC's hands are clean here either.
But back to the point.
Several things to consider- his death seems mildly suspicious, as death by slitting the wrists is not effective. Certainly not by only slitting one wrist. Welcome to the shady world of MI5- motive and ability. Im with the Mirror on ths one. After all, I doubt a respected physicist would say "dark shadows are chasing me" in his suicide not for naught.
Also- for everyone saying "the BBc shold name the source" two things to consider. Journalistic tradition is that sources are NOT named, and also theres the slight matter of the Official Secrets Act. Death over a long stint of porridge- maybe?
Who knows if it was suicide or not, I certainly dont. And I dont think its all that relevent to be honest- Blair and his stooges in the Intelligence Select Committe- especially that piece of shit Donald Anderson- have hounded a man to his death. I hope they resign with immediate effect, but as we all know politicians ahve no morals at all theyll shed a crocodile tear and then set about lining their own pockets afresh.
No rest for the wicked, I dont suppose. But it does break my heart that men like Dr Kelly are dead when Blair is still alive. Not that I wish Blair dead, its just if people die it might as wlel be filth over good.
So, the BBC have confirmed this morning that Dr Kelly was indeed their source. Story Here
And so the trail starts, as we work up the chain of "guilty" which may possibly end with the PM can we expect Andrew Gilligan and some BBC managers to do "the decent thing" and resign - or are the BBC just going to hound the politicians...
Just looking at the timeline, this all started with an exagerrated BBC news "story"...
What you should be crusading against is the fact that it took an inside informant to expose the truth of what we, the antiwar lobby, said was the truth right from the start when all the warmongers were gladly accepting both the US and UK governments' word that they had incontrovertable proof of immediate threat and that they could brook no further delays to their pet imperialist conquest.
You should be further crusading against the fact that the powermongering practiced by the Blair government in this case drove a decent upstanding patriot to his death whether truly be suicide or by more insidious means.
Frankly I wonder if youll ever see that the only villains here are Blair and his cronies. I personally applaud the BBC for having more balls than any US news media to date by acting in the interest of the public trust rather than colluding to protect the powermongers.
Glenda Jackson has said it rightly, the only person who should be handing his resignation in is Blair.
I do honestly believe the BBC's hands are clean. Dr Kelly talked to a BBC reporter, there was nothing unusual in that all reporters have a collection in sources in all government departments, due to the less than open nature of British government it is a necessity to have these sources.
The government had no right to interfere with the BBC's journalistic integrity by demanding they reveal their sources - it was the pressure that he would be revealed and indeed eventually was by the Ministry of Defence it appears and was then thrown into the public spotlight that caused the pressure on Dr Kelly to be so great that he took his own life, not the fact that he talked to the BBC because he did that regularly, it was the government's determination to out him that caused his death - not the BBC.
So hes the source. Perfect justification for hounding the man to death- he ratted on Blair's bullshit and lies.
The BBC have used a journalistic source in an article, Blair took exception to it. Because of this Kelly has been hounded to death- obviously if the BBC hadnt used Kelly's words hed still be here, but the BBC journalist was just doing his job in running a topical story. Where is the BBC's blame in all this?
Stop trying to justify Blair's shameful attack on Kelly through his stooge Donald Anderson in the ISC. It doesnt matter what Kelly did or said, he was subjected to horrific abuse because he dared to criticise the Supreme Leader.
Its time Blair was given a taste of his own medicine.
I thought the the fact he had only slit one wrist and laying conveniently nearby was a knife and a packet of high-strength painkillers was highly suspicious. To walk out into the countryside near to his home made sense...but the mode of death and situational factors didn't.
I thought the select committe were really quite harsh on him to be honest, there were times where Dr Kelly looked genuinely pressurised and distressed. The committe were all there on their high-horses in self-serving attempts to dig the deepest. I hope they feel damn guilty now.
All politicians and journalists should take heed to the fact that ambitious, self-serving and immoral attitudes only serve to destroy those around them, and in the case of those such as Blair, themselves one day.
It's time the warmongers accepted that the right to withhold sources, which they were so ready to argue in collusion with both the US and UK governments when they were claiming "proof" and "intelligence that demonstrated a clear and imminent threat to our security as the case for immediate cessation of the inspections and commencement of invasion, is not a matter that they can now use to villify the BBC.
Especially when it is now apparent to all but the utterly self deluded that the government did not want to fully reveal its "evidence" precisely because it was in fact thoroughly contrived, plagiarised, or otherwise bogus.
The same cannot be said for the BBC's revelations in this situation!