Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options

'Killing is wrong'.....

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Is it really? In every conceivable instance?

Was it 'wrong' for an American soldier to kill a member of the Republican Guard in the war in Iraq?

Is it 'wrong' to kill in self-defence?

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: 'Killing is wrong'.....
    Originally posted by monocrat
    Is it really? In every conceivable instance?

    Was it 'wrong' for an American soldier to kill a member of the Republican Guard in the war in Iraq?

    Is it 'wrong' to kill in self-defence?
    no.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: 'Killing is wrong'.....
    Originally posted by monocrat


    Is it 'wrong' to kill in self-defence?
    Not in all cases. If the other person has the intention to kill you, then no, I don't think it is wrong that in the course of self defence you kill them. However, if you're bing mugged or something and you kill your attacker, then I think that is wrong.

    Even the Church states that it isn't "wrong" to kill in defence of your country, as long as the war is just. There are a lot of criteria to determine whether a war is just, and I very much doubt the war in Iraq would qualify. But that is just the Church's opinion.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it depends, hardcore christians believe all killing is murder, and it does say in the ten commandments "thou shall not kill."
    It doesn't say "thou shalt not kill....with the following exceptions".

    yes, some circumstances would require someone to kill, however some of these circumstances, are still murder. To the Americans a soldier being killed by a US marine isn't murder. To the family of that soldier it would be.

    I personally don't believe I could willingly kill someone. I could beat someone within an inch of their life, but I wouldn't kill anyone, which is one reason why i have chosen to join the police and not the armed forces.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it depends on whether you agree with war when answering the question is it OK for a U.S solider to kill a Republican Guard.

    Of course it isn't wrong to kill in self defence if your life is in danger, but not if you're in a playground school fight!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem with quoting the ten commandments in this discussion is that the original Hebrew word used in the biblical injunction "thou shalt not kill" (ratsakh) refers to "murder" (premeditated) or manslaughter. It does not refer to judicial execution, war or self defence.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, hmm.
    It depends how you look at it, to some the word would just be a technicality, or an excuse for your behaviour. yes, killing is a necessity sometimes, and often unavoidable. It doesn't make it right which is what this discussion is about.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not everyone’s principles are based on Christianity or religion, I'd rather make up my own mind.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mr pincipals aren't solely base on religion, I'm not a christian. All I'm saying is that killing can be justified, but just because it can be justified doesn't make it right to kill someone.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im simply pointing out the fact that it is an oft misapplied injunction based on a faulty overgeneralised english term which was used by the KJV translators. The injunction should have been properly translated as "thou shalt not murder".
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dantheman
    Not everyone’s principles are based on Christianity or religion, I'd rather make up my own mind.
    Yes, and I was using the religious example because most people do spout the Bible when defending their answers. I do not think all killing is wrong.

    I think capital punishment is wrong.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Im simply pointing out the fact that it is an oft misapplied injunction based on a faulty overgeneralised english term which was used by the KJV translators. The injunction should have been properly translated as "thou shalt not murder".

    Is that the excuse used by the Christian Republicans in America to justify the death penalty Clan?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Is that the excuse used by the Christian Republicans in America to justify the death penalty Clan?

    Its not just Republicans who advocate the death penalty Al. We got Christian fundamentalists amongst more conservative Democrats too unfortunately.

    Nevertheless, its not so much this verse that is used to justify capital punishment, there are other passages that refer to forfeiting one's life for willfully taking another's in the old testament.

    They also often use Paul's injunctions in the Book of Romans as well, but that requires reading a bit into the text that is not clearly referring to death penalty itself.

    Here's an interesting rebuttal of the fundamentalist pro-death penalty argument...

    http://www.rtis.com/touchstone/april00/06BIBLE.HTM

    and another...

    http://www.lampofhope.org/tdrj7h.html

    Im sure quite a few who arent interested in religious views will nonetheless find it handy to know how to respond to fundamentalists by pointing out their faulty and patchwork use of biblical passages to justify their support for what is actually nothing more than state sponsored retaliatory murder.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm Pagan, so really, I'm against killing anything if you're not going to eat it... buuuut...

    Indeed, as human beings we have an instinct to kill in order to protect ourselves and our kin.

    Say you're out on the battlefield in some dingy war and somebody runs at you with a gun, yeah, shoot 'em. 'Cause at the end of the day you're protecting your home land, friends and your own life. It's only natural...

    However, on the other hand, I wouldn't participate in any war because of my own moral values. the definition of a "just war" is too ambigious and there's always corruption on both sides.

    As for the death penalty... maybe people could vote on whether this person is executed?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Creeper
    As for the death penalty... maybe people could vote on whether this person is executed?
    You were talking complete sense until you said that!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I wouldn't vote for it, but take a big ass child killer, shouldn't people vote to whom they want in the chair if it has to be done?

    Because the government is corrupt as it is.

    I don't like killing, but if the death penalty must exist, at least make it democratic and give the votes the whole truth (and keep it as far away from the Uk as poss)
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Problem as we've seen all too clearly of late (though its always been the case), the voters are never given the whole truth. In some cases they arent given any truth whatsoever.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Creeper
    Well, I wouldn't vote for it, but take a big ass child killer, shouldn't people vote to whom they want in the chair if it has to be done?

    Because the government is corrupt as it is.

    I don't like killing, but if the death penalty must exist, at least make it democratic and give the votes the whole truth (and keep it as far away from the Uk as poss)
    Why does it have to exist?

    I think voting for the death penalty and who receives it will not result in anything more than a media furore every time someone was on trial! Who would report it? Noboy who wasn't subjective in some way.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good links Clan!

    I don't think people should be allowed to vote on whether someone should be put to death. As it has been demonstrated many times both here and abroad, the masses are easily manipulated and rags like The S*n would end up as judge, jury and executioner in this country.

    The death penalty is about the fundamental issue of whether the State has the right to end a human life, regardless of what their crimes might have been. I firmly believe no-one should have the right to end another person's life, and governments that carry the death penalty are as hideous and criminal as the murderers they are executing.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No. We're lucky we have people who will put themselves in positions where they have to kill, soldiers, so that we have the freedom to hit the site and debate moral issues and theories.
    There's no doubt in my mind that because of what Iraq had become and because of the enemy we made in Saddam, that we are right to go in there and create a democracy for millions of Muslims and kill extremists who stand in the way and for terrorism.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Creeper
    I'm Pagan, so really, I'm against killing anything if you're not going to eat it... buuuut...

    Hmmm

    McDonalds new line:

    "The Al-Qaeda Quarter Pounder"

    A quarter pound of terrorist served with some slightly manky lettuce, a dab of mayo, something which looks like ketchup (but you can never be sure, can you), some huge chunks of onion (to disguise the taste) and a couple of those pickled green things (which no-one can identify for certain)...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    No. We're lucky we have people who will put themselves in positions where they have to kill, soldiers, so that we have the freedom to hit the site and debate moral issues and theories.
    There's no doubt in my mind that because of what Iraq had become and because of the enemy we made in Saddam, that we are right to go in there and create a democracy for millions of Muslims and kill extremists who stand in the way and for terrorism.
    Pnj - why must you turn everything in to a debate about Iraq or America? Seriously, there is no need to bring Iraq into everything. :rolleyes:
Sign In or Register to comment.