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Thomas Jefferson's natural rights
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Jefferson was one of the 'founding fathers' of the US who extended Locke's theory on natural rights by stating that all people had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
What exactly is the 'pursuit of happiness' in this context? I feel like Mill's Harm Principle it lacks a precise definition.
Could I be happy by stealing my neighbour's property?
What exactly is the 'pursuit of happiness' in this context? I feel like Mill's Harm Principle it lacks a precise definition.
Could I be happy by stealing my neighbour's property?
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Yes but you would be depriving your neighbour of his "liberty" of owning his own property as well as reducing his "pursuit of happiness" from the removal of his object. The bit about liberalism which you always seem to forget Mono is that it does not give you a carte blanche to do what you like, when you like, where you like and to whom you like - liberalism allows you to do this as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others to do the same "life, liberty and happiness" bits.
What is 'happiness' in this regard?
That would would make me happy, at least for the present moment!
Ill get back to ya if I have any other happiness suggestions.
A guaranteed place at uni, a shopping spree with no limit to be paid for some silly rich sod and a man who isn't a selfish twat - that'd do me for happiness.
And if moroccan roll would be happy to share, a patch in his magical field.
The pursuit of happiness was to be individual in order to allow people to strive to be more than they had previously been allowed to be.
Thats the underlying notion.
But it must also be understood within its further context of ordered society. The pursuit of happiness was one of the "inalienable rights" which the Constitution recognised men (although to their understanding at the time that meant white landowning men) to be endowed with by their creator.
It was never given to mean that it was a chaotic pursuit or one that could be pursued without constraints, since all rights ended where they infringed with those of another.
a strong point about it as a concept is that it makes the Constitution a living document in need of growth and extension since the founding principles should become more inclusive and liberating as the nation develops.
Sadly what we have arrived at after some promising advances, is a power which seeks to limit, control or dictate that pursuit.
So the pursuit of happiness is meaningless due it's subjective nature. A person could violate the rights of others whilst seeking happiness (which kevlar didn't get, but what are you going to do
Besides, Jefferson was a hypocrite. Someone who believes in freedom shouldn't own slaves.
Oh FFS, a person cannot violate the rights of others because then it interferes with their rights. For example if I were to punch you now because it would further my pursuit of happiness under liberal philosophy I couldn't do that because it would violate your pursuit of happiness by having a broken nose - hence why we have assault laws, rape laws and murder laws. So on the contrary I believe I have a better understanding of liberal philosophy than you because you ignore the basic fact that liberal beliefs mean that you can do what you like as long as it doesn't interfere with others rights to do the same. I don't know if you're planning to murder someone or rob a bank or something and looking to ignore the crucial final bit of liberal philosophy so you can use it in your defence but you really need to stop distorting liberal philosophy in this way - the liberalism you claim to possess is actually in my opinion closer to anarchy.
Today we see Jefferson as a hypocrite but at the time he wasn't because the vast majority of white people saw black people as another species almost remember this was the 18th Century not the 21st. So his owning slaves was basically the same as owning a dog or cat today. Not that it was right but that was the view at the time.
I can state many examples (unlike you who has never provided a single shred of evidence to back up anything you say):
Exhibit A - your comment in this thread that "a person could violate the rights of others seeking happiness."
Exhibit B - your comments in the bullying thread that bullying isn't wrong and it was down to the freedoms of the bullies even when this clearly contravenes the rights of the bullied kids.
Exhibit C - your comments about how rape and murder laws are unnecessary.
You may like to note that the above constitutes a thing called evidence, if you can provide examples of this evidence to substanitate your viewpoint in an argument it leads to a thing called debate as opposed to flippant one liners.
As I said before you didn't understand what I was attempting to state.
I think bullying is right because of people like you. Also what has my persona; views on that subject got to do with this thread?
I never explicitly stated that murder and rape should be legal.
I'd rather be a person like me than an automaton like you. It proves that you believe that a bully's freedoms should be unlimited even when they damage the bully's victims.
You inferred that they should and continued to press the case for this in the face of evidence presented by other people that they shouldn't.
Oh and look how you misspelt personal as "persona;" you must be quite clearly dyslexic, I mean if Rainbow is for getting a mere apostrophe wrong. :rolleyes:
Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain precisely what you mean by that comment.
Blahaaaaaaaaa.
You made me laugh Clandestine. Don't worry, once Americans feel less threatened the liberal tendancies of America will pop out again. :yes:
Those who do care about the rampant abuses of power being perpetrated over the nation (yes even on behalf of those of you poor slobs too blind and stupid to bother questioning how many of your rights are being negated whilst you wave your flags like good little drones) are those who have always seen through this administration and its lies and will continue to work to uphold the liberal values upon which the nation was built, long after you mindless unquestioning sheep have gone back to sleep.
If you think its a laughing matter, you only further demonstrate you immature lack of comprehension of the values you spout off so easily. You have alot to learn about how easily naive unquestioning fools like yourself only make it easier for Washington powermongers like Ashcroft and his McCarthyite lackies to take them away right under your nose.
If you arent part of the solution, youre part of the problem!