British Industry.

Former Member

Why does British heavy industry seem to be going down the pan? Cunard's next liner the Queen Mary 2 will be built in France, there are no British-owned budget car makers left and British Aerospace no longer makes large airliners.

First of all, shipbuilding. In the last few years we have had the Kvaerner Govan fiasco, the Ailsa-Troon shipyard has closed and Cammell-Laird have seen major financial difficulties. Meanwhile shipbuilding in the far East is booming.

What about cars. The nearest we have to a British mainstream car maker is Rover, and they tend to be at the more expensive end of the market. Reliant has stopped making the Robin and Ford and Vauxhall are both owned by the yanks. If Austin or Morris had survived the break-up of British Leyland we might still have a mainstream car manufacturer in this country. Meanwhile, Hyundai, Daewoo and even Skoda are making popular and very successful cars very cheaply.

So what about aircraft. BAe Systems as they like to be known now mostly seem to make bits for other peoples planes. Airbus, the Eurofighter etc are run by European consortia.

Its about time something was done about British industry. The shipbuilders need to grab every order they can. Rover should bring back the Austin brand to make mainstream cars. BAe should make more aircraft like the ATP and Avroliner/146 and think about designing some aircraft on its own. British industry as a whole needs to market itself around the globe. Instead of whining about the Euro, we need to think about the wider markets like North America, Australasia, and Asia.

Former Member

It's all thanks to capitalism. The age old tactic of finding someone else who can make it cheaper.
And here's everyone harping on about how great it is, when it is destroying our nation from within.
It is bound to happen to any developed nation, labour and resource costs are so high here that it is easier to get some little chinese ratman to do it for a pittance.

Don't blame the industries, dont blame the government, blame the state of world affairs.

Former Member

Yep, Whowhere is right.

Its just the way of the world at the moment. We can get some little chinese guy to make everything we need for a fraction of the cost British workers would charge.

Britain has turned into a public service driven economy. Its not worse, just different.

Of course when the EU collapses we will be totally fucked. Our country wont be able to support itself cos we have sub contracted everything to elsewhere.

Former Member

So we can't make things cheaper than anywhere else. Fair enough. What we need to do is concentrate on what we are good at. High value products. Britain may have expensicve labour, but we have some very talented engineers and designers. We need to be making smarter and better, not cheaper. Our car industry is stuck in the past. Look at the new mini, new Rover 75 and New Jaguar S-Type. The original models were cutting-edge designs. Now we are getting all nostalgic about them. Yes they are good cars, but we need something new. New more efficient engines, new technology, new designs. We need to look into the future and make it happen.

Former Member

Read Harvey.

This is the free market economy. Britain led the way in industrialisation way back when. We've gone through the NEED to have an industry, and can afford to diversify in to tertiary goods and service economies. It's not different, it's the next logical progression in a Rostovian model.

We can afford to sub-contract, because we have the capital to do so. If we coudn't, then we'd need an industrial base. What you're talking about is pride in British national goods. I agree, that would be nice. But we don't need to try and be world class - we are the class of the world. We did it faster, better, and about 50 years before anyone. We lead. The world follows.

Pride?

Damn right.

Former Member

Another great thing is the electronics industry is basically wiped out(in scotland that is)where I stay, motorola, NEC, panasonic, matzui, kaymata have all closed!!

Makes me feel really confortable knowing that my chosen profession(mechatronic engineering)is basically useless in my own country and if I want a job in doing it I will have to leave the country.

Thanks great britain for letting all the companies pack up and go to poorer countries so they can make cheaper products as its too expensive here and you didnt even try to do anything to keep the companies here!!

Former Member

Originally posted by Captain Slog:
<STRONG>So we can't make things cheaper than anywhere else. Fair enough. What we need to do is concentrate on what we are good at. High value products. Britain may have expensicve labour, but we have some very talented engineers and designers. We need to be making smarter and better, not cheaper. Our car industry is stuck in the past. Look at the new mini, new Rover 75 and New Jaguar S-Type. The original models were cutting-edge designs. Now we are getting all nostalgic about them. Yes they are good cars, but we need something new. New more efficient engines, new technology, new designs. We need to look into the future and make it happen.</STRONG>

I totally agree. We rely too heavily on nostalgia to keep our specialist industries going. If you look abroad - I'm thinking Renault here - you see extremely progressive design (and engineering) going into their cars.

However, we shouldn't forget what we're good at, and try to catch up with what everyone else is doing. We do nostalgia well. Those cars you mention are good cars, whatever they look like. And popular too.

And as DJP says, we have moved on from a manufacturing-based economy. We do services - banking, finance, hospitality, specialist industries - well, and these are of great value in today's world.

At the end of the day, who cares what makes up the economy? Just because we were the best at cars doesn't mean we always have to be (or can be). As long as what we are doing works and is saleable in the international marketplace then I'm happy.

Former Member

High wages are not the reason that Britain can't compete.

America and Germany have high wages too but still have massive industrial output.

The problem is the tax that British industries have to pay. This is what makes them uncompetitive in the world market.

Former Member

Of course it could also be because companies want to make HUGE profits, rather than just a profit.

We also take too short a view of things. In this country we have five year plans. In Japan they have 50 year plans, and look to declare their profits then...

Oh, and the tax UK business pays is less than many of our European 'partners', we just pay more personal tax instead...