Your life, in US hands...

Former Member

So the NHS is full of bungling morons who should be sacked. If only we had a system like they do in the US, then this kind of thing would never happen...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1693000/1693970.stm

So what do we blame here, lack of funding? crap managers? political interference? or just simple human error?

Can you imagine what the UK press would have said if this has happened over here?

Former Member

This seems to be a case of human error. So human's aren't perfect. What's new?

Whether this patient should have sued is another matter. The compensation bill for the NHS is approx £1billion per year. This seems to me to be an awful waste of money when you consider how many operations/beds/nurses/drugs this money could buy. I don't think the USA has anything to offer us in terms of healthcare or litigation. There is a blame culture over there which has led to so-called 'ambulance-chasing' lawyers who are out for a quick buck.

Are we entitled to sue our doctors if they make a simple mistake? I hope not. Mistakes should never go unnoticed but a compensation culture surely encourages secrecy and the covering-up of evidence.

Former Member

The man would have died long before having any cancer operation over here <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">

Kentish, im not sure I would call that a simple mistake.

In case you missed it we already have a compensation culture to rival that of the US. Everyone is sueing everyone. When you can get sued for looking at someone funny I think its acceptable to sue for medical incompetance.

Former Member

Leaving as metal retractor is not a simple mistake. But that was an extreme and that's why it made the news.

In case you missed it we already have a compensation culture to rival that of the US. Everyone is sueing everyone. When you can get sued for looking at someone funny I think its acceptable to sue for medical incompetance.

But should we sue McDonalds when we spill hot tea on ourselves whilst driving with it in our laps? That's outrageous, and we shouldn't accept that kind of irresponsible attitude in this country. We don't sue as much as the Americans but I accept we are going that way.
As I said, it leads to a cover-up and blame culture which isn't helpful.

Former Member

Im guessing youre referring to the macdonalds hot coffee lawsuit in the US? In that case I think the lawsuit was perfectly justified. The coffee was served so hot that it wasnt consumable. If she had drunk the coffee at that temp it would have badly burnt her mouth and throat. They werent sued because the coffee was hot but rather because they served something that could not be safely consumed...When i buy something from a shop I expect to be able to eat or drink it without doing myself considerable harm that would require a trip to the hospital.
PS, the woman who won that lawsuit bought her 2 grandkids a new bike and donated the rest to a burns centre.

I would love to see an end to the compensation culture for stupid things in this country. Sexual and racist discrimination cases are a good example. The Police pay out over 20 million a year on settlements for these cases. Its insane. You cant do anything in this country without wondering if you will face a civil court case.

We arent going to get rid of it so we have to learn to live with it.

Former Member

Originally posted by Balddog:
<STRONG>The coffee was served so hot that it wasnt consumable. If she had drunk the coffee at that temp it would have badly burnt her mouth and throat.

</STRONG>

You're joking, right? Coffee is made with boiling water. We should expect people to be responsible enough not to put boiling liquids into their mouths. I would understand if coffee served at McDonalds was somehow served at a higher temperature than when we make coffee at home, but it's not. McDonalds coffee is still too hot to drink straight away, so we haven't even gained anything from this silly woman's lawsuit.

PS, the woman who won that lawsuit bought her 2 grandkids a new bike and donated the rest to a burns centre.

I don't believe that, but anyway that's not the point.

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: Kentish Man ]

Former Member

Kentish,

Relying on personal responsibility is not something that can be done in todays world. Common sense isnt as common as we would like to think.

Macdonalds is a food vendor. They are licensed to provide food and beverages that can be eaten and drunk. In this case the coffee wasnt just hot it was incredibly hot and if drunk it would have caused serious burns. May i ask when the last time you ordered coffee from macdonalds was?

BTW..whether you believe it or not, it remains the truth.

Former Member

I read up on two amazing cases in the states recently,
One was a women successfully sueing Mc D's for emotional damage when her childs birthday party was forgotten and not arranged.
The second was a woman who sued Nike cause she tripped over her laces. Apparently they come with a warning now!
Both settlements were in the tens of millions of dollars. Nothing the Yanks do surprises me anymore.

Former Member

Originally posted by Marmite:
<STRONG>I read up on two amazing cases in the states recently,
One was a women successfully sueing Mc D's for emotional damage when her childs birthday party was forgotten and not arranged.
The second was a woman who sued Nike cause she tripped over her laces. Apparently they come with a warning now!
Both settlements were in the tens of millions of dollars. Nothing the Yanks do surprises me anymore.</STRONG>

Did you hear about the case to rival all cases?

A few years ago a woman took her grandchildren to Disney Land. Her car was broken into, but she didnt sue for that. She sued because her, and the kids were taken beind the scenes to be looked after, the kids saw the characters without costumes on, and she sued them for emotional damage!

Former Member

Baldy, you are so stubborn!
If someone lacks the common sense to realise that driving with coffee in their lap is likely to get them burnt, then they forfeit the right to sue. I think the point is: if she'd made the coffee herself at home and spilt it from her own mug, would she attempt to sue the kettle manfacturer or put it down to a silly mistake.

I've no idea when I last had a hot drink from McDonalds but all the coffees/teas I have bought from Starbucks and the like have been too hot to drink straight away so I do the obvious thing and wait for them to cool down to a drinkable temperature, just like I would at home.

Former Member

I know, I know...Im far too stubborn for my own good...Im not likely to be any better at twenty to four in the morning either <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">

I guess it was a bit of a silly lawsuit when it comes down to it...

If anything happens to me though, I wont hesitate to sue the crap out of anything that moves...Im not too proud to take advantage of this disgusting compensation culture <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Former Member

Originally posted by Balddog
May i ask when the last time you ordered coffee from macdonalds was?

There are 2 types of coffee machines in UK McDonalds alone, and more different types across the world, and they have different brew temperatures and holding temperatures. So you can't generalise about all McDonalds across the world.

The coffee temperature was decreased by 22 degrees farenheit after the lawsuit went through at the restaurant where that woman (Stella Liebeck) was burned.

She ended up getting $160,000 herself, and the rest of the money was paid as punitive damages rather than compensation.

The fact of the matter is that this case has tainted all McDonalds across the world because one lawsuit, which wasn't even for that much in the end (the total paid was actually far less than the $2.7 million originally stated) got so much publicity. And that's what gets me angry about the whole thing.

I used to have people call me up nearly every night as a McDonalds manager shouting that their food was cold by the time they got home. You wouldn't believe the number of times that I offered people a free replacement meal with added desserts if they came back that night, and they shouted, "I'm not turning around and driving another half hour just to pick up some more burgers!" So I can understand why it is that that McDonalds may have had their coffee hotter than they ought to.

But still, her coffee was at 80 degrees celcius. I always make instant coffee when the water's still boiling, and have spilt it on myself many a time. This woman claimed she needed to be hospitalised for eight days and was disabled for two years. That I find very very hard to believe.

Former Member

Originally posted by Snow White:
The fact of the matter is that this case has tainted all McDonalds across the world

How could it possibly make people see them any worse?

I used to have people call me up nearly every night as a McDonalds manager

Haha, lol i worked in a burgerking once, never again!

This woman claimed she needed to be hospitalised for eight days and was disabled for two years. That I find very very hard to believe.

How on earth did she get away with that?! <IMG alt="image" SRC="eek.gif" border="0"> blimey i've had BR hot chocolate, now that was hot, damned hot but i didn't make a fuss about it. Anyway doesn't the cup it comes in say CAUTION HOT or something similar on the side?

grrrrrrr... lets not have a sue culture here pleeeeeease. Right I want to sue you for posting an word that has caused me emotional damage, and the site for letting it get posted.

Former Member

We already have a litigious culture here, as Balddog said earlier.

My Trust was sued by a chap who tried to top himself. He arrived at our A&E Dept, the doctors and nurses saved his life - as they must. He was left with brain damage and unable to walk. So he sued, on the basis that had we let him die (as he wanted) then he wouldn't be in such a state...

Glad to say he lost, but it won't be long before someone wins such a case...

I think byny brought this mentality up on another thread (the plane crsah one?) when she said that there was always someone to blame. When it comes to lawyers, that means that there is always someone to sue..

Former Member

How could it possibly make people see them any worse?

I served a woman with a young son who asked for a coffee among other things. This coffee had been held for 5 minutes, making it far cooler than freshly brewed coffee. Her son kept trying to knock the tray onto the floor as I got the food ready, and when I put the coffee down I said "watch out, this is hot" very very clearly (even though I'd just spilled some on myself and it was no hotter than my showers). No sooner had I put this down than her son knocked it over (she was busy talking to someone else in the queue and completely ignoring him) and she started shouting at me for spilling coffee on her son, even though I was nowhere near the tray when it happened. In the midst of all this, she shouted something about "well, you know how hot McDonalds coffee is, you could have killed my son!".

So once again, because of the media blowing something out of proportion, she isn't to blame for not keeping an eye on her son when she got a clear warning that there was something wrong, but we as a company are to blame. To make matters worse, her child was fine, with no redness or anything, and seemingly unbothered by the whole thing until she looked at him and said something about "that nasty nasty lady hurting you so. You poor boy!" at which point he started crying (a good 2 minutes after the
"burn")

I myself have served hundreds, if not thousands of coffees and have only had this one complaint about their heat. And yet people make out like this is still a huge problem. What they fail to recognise is that McDonalds has served more people than just about any food outlet, if not more than any and have had very few serious problems such as this.

Until people can get that into perspective, though, I'm still going to be getting comments about scalding coffee, rats in burgers, what those silly teenagers have been doing to the burgers and other such things. But then it's worth it, I suppose, to do a job which 99% of the time I love.