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zimbabwe
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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I agree it's horrendous what's happening, but there are two sides to every story. Whilst the natives have been a bit hard done by, Mugabe is undoubtedly going about this the wrong way.
The upcoming elections...well, short of a military coup, Mugabe and his cronies will be back in power, either through decmocratic means, because he is popular in his country, or through rigging the election if he feels there is even the slightest chance of losing.
Unfortunate, yes. I have no idea what we can do about it though.
Mugabe is nothing more than a tinpot dictator these days. He has just past laws totally supressing ALL political opponents. The army has declared that it will not accept the other guy winning the election and their unconditional support for Mugabe. If a leader has total control of the army, he has total control of the country.
He is equally brutal to his black political opponents as he is to the white farmers. The man is absolute scum.
While I dont really have too much of a problem with the white farmers having to give up some of their land as long as they arent murdered, raped or beaten for it. Its really not very practical. If he gets rid of all the farmers in too short a period of time then his country will starve.
If he continues his campaign of terror just one day longer then we should throw the country out of the commonwealth and immediately stop all aid. We cant intervene militarily because it will be called imperialism by Mugabe and that will gain him support amongst the blacks and that plays right into his hands. Once the people start getting hungry they will see that Mugabe cannot provide for the country and will hopefully get rid of him. At that point he will become a fully fledged dictator and use the army to keep power.
What I would like to see is us helping organise the opposition party over there. Providing them with the ability to fight back against Mugabe should be use the army to fix the elections.
Its an awful situation and I dont see Mugabe going without another civil war. <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0">
The brightest picture that could be painted of the current state of affairs is that it will only digress to the level we find Somalia at today...with the disease, starvation...possible white retaliation factor...who can say...real nightmare coming up I'm sure.
All these 'liberal' darlings seem to end up doing this same thing...ever wonder why?
Diesel
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South & Central America are barely better, and it is just depressing to go on and on...!
With the advent of AIDS/HIV and other diseases equally bad in Africa the prognosis is not good...total human depopulation of the 'dark' continent is not only possible but probable...throw in a raging war from one end to another...etc.
(forgive me, the eternal optomist!)
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Or what?
We have surprisingly little say over what they do. I think we have always got on better with the Indians myself.
Given the large number of former colonies of the British, let me assure you that the more that is done to ignore them, the more the residents of those places will like it. Britain isn't an Empire anymore, and did enough horror and damage when it was.
Even those who are being terrorised, raped and murdered by Mugabes thugs? Yes im talking about the black residents here. You think the people will be happy that we stayed out when he goes apeshit and sets the army lose when he loses the election? You think they will be glad we stayed away when there is famine wracking the country?
Putting aside your obvious opinions of the British empire, you cant deny that the UK has closer ties with Zimbabwe than any other western nation. We can help the people of that country. Empire or not, we are still the 5th largest economy in the world and we can help them.
I do wonder though...who is providing arms to Africa now that the old Soviet Union is no more...?
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Given the British history in that part of the world, I don't expect the tribes will want you back in any way, shape or form. Your "close ties" might easily be ties of resentment.
If its a choice between starving to death or accepting help from the UK I think we both know which the people will choose.
Zimbabwe is capable of requesting help from the African Nations, the U.N. or the World Bank. It doesn't need Britain meddling there again.
African nations? You dont think they have enough of their own problems?
The UN? You mean the UN of which the UK is a part?
The world bank? What a great idea that is. Even more debt for their country.
Luckily not everyone has an irrational hatred of the British. You seem to think we are the same country we were 200 years ago. As you are so keen to point out, we are no longer an Empire and we have no wish to be.
As long as your country hold land which is not its own, and meddles in the affairs of its former colonies, Britain will have earned the dislike and even hatred of many.
200 years ago?
You really need to read a bit of your own history.
We dont 'hold' any land that isnt our own. The people living on that land want to remain as part of the UK. We shouldnt 'meddle' in the affairs of former colonies? Just what do you class as meddling? Personally I would love to see British resources doing nothing but looking after British interests but unfortunately the EU, UN and NATO seem to want us to help out those less fortunate than ourselves.
Why do I need to read more of British history? Did we not have an empire 200 years ago? I made no comments as to it being the start of our empire or the height of our empire. It was just a date taken out at random from our period of empire.
Sadly, I think for now all we can do is block Zimbabwe, and hope that they start to starve so that they will rebel against Mugabe. We cant go in and tell them who to be ruled by, regardless of how good/bad the crazy dictator is. Britain isnt an Empire any more, and we dont have the right to impose ourselves on a country that has not done anything particularly wrong to the wider community.
Mugabe is no worse than a lot of countries...Turkey is as bad on human rights as Zimbabwe, but we dont try to control them. We let them into the EU.
Aww, have the big bad British hurt all those ikkle countries who cant defend themselves? What precisely have Britain done wrong in the 'recent' past, ie, fifty years? Apart from Londonderry, which was the irresponsible acts of murder by British soldiers who should be prosecuted, Britain has done nothing. And even that was not sanctioned by the UK Government, which is what you mean by Britain being evil.
It does nothing of the sort..Why on earth why I infer something that totally invalidates the point I am trying to make. I used 200 years ago because that was right in the middle of our empire period. I used it because I wanted to illustrate that we arent an empire anymore. Sorry mate but you misread that one.
We are also a very generous Country, we donate more to charity every year than any other European country. We are forever sending over financial aid and other help to countries like Africa.
To be quite honest we have done more for this world than any other country. I'm not saying the empire was good, but let us think how would the ex colonies be now if we had never ruled them? There are many people in India and Africa who would still prefer to be under British rule. We gave them education, roads, buildings etc.. Would they have all this without us? I don't think so.
At least my country has made it's mark on this world, it's better to have done that than to have just sat back and watched!
Atrition and depopulaton from disease (AIDS/etc.) reducing the region to an uninhabited region...wllowing for recolonization by 'our' folks into a raw and barren land...again!
Anyway...it appears that that is what is happening right now. The original populations of these regions are simply too primative both culturally and otherwise to do more than what they are and have been doing. Under enlightened direction they advanced pretty far...but the baser types always take over and ruin the effort.
So, here it is...an opportunity for a 'New Rhodesia' populated by an overcrowed mother nation, again, with those who will or must leave for whatever reason.
I know that some will hate this idea but the do gooder approach hasn't worked.
Diesel
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