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Northern Ireland
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Out of curiosity, I'd like to see how much those of you from outside of Ireland have been informed about the peculiarity of NI "politics". This is a post largely for my own curiosity, though any debate it spawns would be a good thing.
So... what does everybody think about NI (henceforth referred to as Norn Iron)?
So... what does everybody think about NI (henceforth referred to as Norn Iron)?
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The troubles have dies down a bit now and people on the mainland don't feel threatened, there are other threats that people feel are more pressing eg Al Qaida, Iraq etc.....
I would imagine most people know a bit but I doubt that many people form England at least are that interested.........
Ulster should remain British for the time being. The majority of the population are Unionist/Protestant and would be the case for the forseeable future.
As for the peace process, really ALL paramilitarites (be they Loyalist or Republican) should surrender their arsenals and adhere to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.
I live in N.Ireland, do u really think that is going to happen?
No its not never,not until there is a united Ireland some say but even then the Loyalists wont want it this way so they will start shootings and bombings again and the Nationalists will respond by doing the same.
Agree with u there,in the papers every week it is about drug money,protection money,people being killed over it.
N.Ireland will never be at rest.
Only for the next 5-10 years according to a programme I saw a while ago.
But then I'm not sure whether it should be decided by sheer numbers of Protestants vs. Catholics. The Northern Ireland issue is a very complex one. It is never going to be a perfect solution for everyone so I guess they should try to make the Good Friday Agreement work since it's the only thing they have.
Unless they make Northern Ireland an independent nation with a mixed Catholic/Protestant population. Not part of either the UK or Ireland.
Any chances of that working?
N.Ireland has improved alot since the troubles of years ago,there was people being killed everyday and internment was another issue that shouldn't have been brought in to N.Ireland.
It was just the British army using their unwanted force in N.Ireland.
I studied Irish politics as part of my History 'O' Level back in '86, and out of interest since, so I like to think that I have a resaonble grasp of things over there.
I think I agree with Aladdin's comments about Good Friday here. There will never be a perfect solution, because what is perfect from one side is the complete opposite of what the other side wants. Best we just start with a compromise.
As for disarmament. What you need to remember is that the paramilitary group as now as much crimanal gangs as they are political activists...
I don't see that the map has to change, the only way to bring peace, whatever the political lines is for people to compromise and that doesn't require changing the map........
The Northern Ireland Assembly would be a mixture of the two using both British and Irish parties, not Northern Irish parties and would have powers over everything that could be devolved ie; everything except foreign affairs, defence and monetary policy which would be determined by a joint council of the British and Irish governments.
There should be no borders between Northern Ireland and the Republic and Britain so it blurs and there should be a different Northern Irish passport which is accepted as both British and Irish citizenship.
See, my policy's so good they're already enacting it!
Yeah I know, but perhaps better to have two sets of people dissatisfied than one set happy and the other mightily pissed off.
Those from either side who couldn't possibly tolerate not living in British/Irish soil could piss off to Britain/Ireland. Those who remained would be obviously more tolerant and future generations born there would call out their nationality as 'Northern Irish'.
[/UTOPIA] :rolleyes:
with stormont closed, we are again ruled by britain, i have noticed no change in quality of life so stormont has done nothing for me in its short history, i believe we should listen to the people, what they want, not what they are told they want.
You talk about borders,well i live near borders and can consider it not to be a border,its only got the name, there is no-one checks to monitor anything,lots of stuff comes in from guns to drugs to women from the south.
Unfortunately this would result in a total lack of proportionality for the people because they wouldn't feel they were being accurately represented by politicians from outside northern ireland. Many unionists, never mind nationalists, certainly wouldn't trust the British enough to be the sole mouthpiece for their concerns.
Turlough you say:
What exactly do the people want though?
All i see is other Catholics fighting against protestants because they are "taigs" or "huns" and they are psyched up by nationalist and loyalist groups, both sides are guilty of this so there is no blaming it on one or the other.
1) radical rengades who believe in fighting to get their aims met, these include neo-facist/loyalists to dissident republicans, they make up about 5% of the population,
2) the middle class secterian, these ppl agree with the aims of these terrorists but don't actually go out and do the dirty work,these ppl say they aren't secterian, they don't show it on the surface but deep down they are. most of these ppl live in areas such as north and west belfast where unemployment is high and fighting occurs everyday. these make up about 25% of society
3) people who genuinely believe in peace and don't care what religion u are or race. these ppl make up the majority of society
About the elections what I mean is that instead of SDLP, Ulster Unionists, Sinn Fein and the DUP you have Labour, Conservatives and the Lib Dems standing in your Parliamentary elections to the Commons and Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and (Irish) Labour standing in elections to the Dail in which Northern Ireland would be represented. This would surely break sectarianism to a large extent as the SDLP and Sinn Fein are nationalist/ UUP DUP are unionist by their bedrock so you can never defeat sectarianism while they're around. Besides which all British parties and I assume all Irish parties will have a policy on Northern Ireland so why shouldn't the people of Northern Ireland get to vote on policies that affect them. Because let's be honest the Northern Irish parties are little more than a sideshow in Westminster it's the main national parties where the power lies.
In the case of the Northern Irish Assembly you would have all the Irish parties and all the British parties being elected to it so they can work together to solve the issues instead of childish actions like the DUP going "Oh we're not joining the Assembly so ner" or the pressure on the UUP not to work with Sinn Fein it's all so childish IMO which is why I think the people of Northern Ireland would be better served by the Irish and British parties rather than Northern Irish parties whose main purpose is to increase divisions.
The Joint Council of Britain and Ireland would meet to decide on the matters that could not be decided by the Northern Irish Assembly, namely monetary policy, foreign policy and defence and the logical position is for Northern Ireland to be inbetween both nations in joint sovereignty eg; Eurozone interest rate is 2%, British rate is 4% Northern Irish rate would be 3% for Northern Irish people. In the unlikely event of an invasion of Northern Ireland both countries would go to help etc etc.
While you have parties in Northern Ireland who are based on the sectarian divisions you can never hope to move forward in a way that can be said to be a consensus.
I also think a Northern Ireland without their own assembly would result in a situation like Direct Rule. Except this time both loyalists and republicans would be directing terror campaigns to bring about better representation for themslves.
Again, at the end of the day there are people in Northern Ireland who are prepared to make compromises if it will result in a stable situation and there are those like the stubborn old bastards like the DUP and Sinn Fein who want all or nothing.
Unfortunately as it is now, these two parties seem to be the ones attracting the most support from the young so I can't see the situation getting any better.
But the whole point of getting rid of the Northern Irish parties is to stop Northern Ireland being such an issue of itself - if you didn't have your parties you would surely be better integrated into both countries and you couldn't be so sectarian in your politics. The thing about a big picture is a good thing - maybe it would make Northern Ireland look at the bigger picture and not be so petty at home.
I didn't say anything about not having an assembly, I would give all powers possible to a Northern Ireland Assembly which would have the Irish and British parties in it instead of the Northern Irish parties you have in it now who are screwing up the whole idea of devolution with their pettiness.
My main point is that the sectarian minority in Northern Ireland seem to be ruining things for everyone so it, a harsh truth is that things could be solved a lot easier if it was just dealt with by the British and Irish governments. The truth is that most British people couldn't care less if Northern Ireland was in the UK or not and those that do care would probably want it returned to Ireland. I think to a large extent Northern Ireland is closed off within itself and they need to see the bigger picture which is what I think allowing there to be joint sovereignty would do.
Thats very good but the question i aksed you was what do the people actually want?
You have just give a summary of the differnet type of people living in N.Ireland.:eek2: