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Euro decision made.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The decision on whether Britain will join the euro has been made at a special Cabinet meeting.
But the Government refuses to announce the results of Chancellor Gordon Brown's five tests until Monday.
They left the decison up to me. I'm actually Tony Blair and you are all being kicked out of the country for being decidely un-UKish.
But seriously, how exciting is this?
But the Government refuses to announce the results of Chancellor Gordon Brown's five tests until Monday.
They left the decison up to me. I'm actually Tony Blair and you are all being kicked out of the country for being decidely un-UKish.
But seriously, how exciting is this?
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Comments
I do sometimes now have to use euro so im used to it,its not a big issue.
LOL
I doubt the five tests will be met, so according to government policy there will be no referendum.
Whats so funny DB56K?
I am used to the Euro already as i live close by areas that take the euro.
I also doubt the 5 tests will be met, but I don't think that will stop the government finding loopholes and not giving us a referendum, yet still taking us into the Euro.
The Tory press semm to suggets that the questions will be rigged to get the right answer but i can't imagine how, it is a simple yes no question........
Not necessarily, depends how the question is phrased, for example if the government wanted to keep the pound the question could be something like:
Do you support Britain keeping the pound sterling as the national currency and maintaining her independence from European Monetary Union? Yes/No
or if you wanted to ditch the pound:
Do you support the integration of the British currency and monetary systems with our European neighbours through joining with them in the European Monetary Union? Yes/No
There is also a suggestion that the question could be a bigger one regarding Europe and so be something like:
Do you believe that the United Kingdom should remain in the European Union and take part in European Monetary Union with our European neighbours? Yes/No
Hence turning the referendum into one of being in the EU and joining the Euro or leaving the EU and keeping the pound, which I think is the only way they could possibly win a referendum.
Although everyone knows that the first two example questions are about the Euro the difference in phrasing can be enough to swing about 10% of voters to one side or the other which is why there are calls for the Electoral Commission to decide the question which wouldn't be as extremely blatant as the two I suggested I think it will be a choice between something like:
Do you believe the UK should abolish the pound for the European Single Currency?
or
Do you think Britain should join the Euro?
The difference in phrasing is such so that psychologically the second is more likely to get a Yes vote than the first.
I also don't think they will make it a bigger issue over the EU, too much risk if Blair lost........
Whatever the way it is done I cannot see Blair winning it..........
A perfect example is the new EU constitution. Like the 'number crunching' feature in Private Eye put it: 80% of British would vote against the new constitution. And, er... 80% of British admit to not having a clue what the new constitution is.
Only in this blessed country you get major newspapers putting "Surrender", "1,000 years of History wasted", "Goodbye Great Britain" and similar ignorant shit on their front pages. There is a massive case of collective bigotry and moronic ignorance in this country when it comes to Europe, supported by what must qualify as the biggest, most vitriolic and xenophobic hate campaign in human history, conducted by our fine free press. How on earth could you have a rational debate, let alone a fair referendum on this basis?
Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is safe to say that countries like Italy or Greece have a history and a heritage much greater than that of the UK. Yet you don't see anybody there crying out about losing their "heritage" or "identity" because their ditch their currency in favour of a new one, or have strong economic and political links with their neighbours. So who is wrong here: are the citizens of 14 EU countries fools who are throwing their history away? Or is it this country that is living in cuckoo land and has a completely misplaced sense of patriotism and a profound case of 'islander's mentality'?
there are good reasons for not joining the Euro 9not good enough in my opinion) but as you say the manner of the debate is often disgraceful.......
Al I think it is fair enough to say that Greece and itlay have richer cultures and more glorious past than Britain also it cannot be blamed on being an island as Malta, Cyprus and Ireland are all keen Europe enthusiasts.............
Thats what he wants you to think. Hes a New Labourite. He's for it.
Sure , they have been around for a long time , but recently (past 500 years) Britain has been at the forefront of world affairs!
Britain has probably the most interesting history of any nation on earth.
Hmmmmm perhaps because the Euro zone may enter a recession , wheras Britain is riding high on a postwar economic boom.
Perhaps because you are Spanish , you have little idea of what it means to be British.
You have said it yourself: "recently". The point was that Greece and the Roman Empire were the pinnacle of democracy and civilisation when Britain was little more than sheep, cows and nomads. So yes, Greece and Italy have a much richer heritage and history than Great Britain (or Spain for that matter), whichever way you want to look at it. To deny it is not only plain wrong but frankly quite foolish.
Yet you don't see anybody there complaining about lost heritage, sovereignty or history. Or anywhere else in the Continent with strong heritage (France, Germany, Spain, Portugal to name but 4) for that matter. Only here we have to put up with ludicrous claims about losing our identity and heritage. So who is in the wrong? 200 million Europeans or the Daily Mail brigade?
As for the euro plunging Britain into a recession, that is a valid concern and one that deserves proper debate and scrutiny. But let's be honest, the economic implications are just the last thing on the minds of the S*n & Daily Mosley reading, xenophobic masses. They deeply dislike anything to do with the continent and that they regard a change of currency as a loss of our identity gives only the impression that these people's sense of identity must be very poor.
Can't you see it though? Why would Gordon Brown be against the Euro? it will strengthen the contrys economy.
I agree with you on the history - but why not give it another interesting facet? The Euro.
Care to back that up?
What piece of economic research conclusively states that the Euro would strengthen the economy?
Do you really think that 500 years of British wars with its neighbours and voyages are more important/significant than the Roman Empire, or ancient Egypt, or ancient Greece?
Going back to the topic, shortly after I posted my previous thread I went home and happened to watch Mongrel Nation with Eddie Izzard. Amongst other things we think as English or British that happen to be imports, he was talking about our adored Pound. He asked a few people on the street who proceeded to give the same old tired rant about the Pound being as English as roast beef, and part of our heritage and so on. The Pound was in fact a Roman import, deriving from their 'Libra' currency, and Izzard added with the slightest smile on his face that the Pound was in fact the first European single currency, of which Britain not only took part but happily adopted as its new currency.
I think that if you want to learn about the modern world and how it came about, the last 500 years of british history are probably the most useful.
Obviously if you were studying the ancient world Romans or Ancient Greeks would be more appropriate.
By allying it with the rest of Europes. (My view)
Because in his current role as Chancellor he would have less control.
There is no conclusive proof that entering the Euro would either benfit or harm the economy, there are many arguments to be weighed up.
I must say though asking for proof is a bit rich form you mono who have raely backed up your atatements on economics..........
Firstly, the huge risk involved if the rate at which we enter the Euro is too high or too low, one will damage our export industry the other will damage our recent achievements in reducing inflation to a low and stable level.
Secondly, the effect that the one-size-fits-all interest rate has on the economy. We can already see this in evidence in the Eurozone where Germany needs lower interest rates to boost their economy while Ireland needs higher interest rates to cool its overheating economy.
Thirdly, the Growth and Stability Pact which reduces governments fiscal flexibility to spend more in a recession and cut back in periods of economic growth. The Pact is too rigid and would not take account of the fact that government spending on infrastructure would actually benefit the economy in the long term and so this would be held back. Although it is currently being reformed but that's how it stands at the moment.
Fourth, as an increasingly deindustrialised economy we depend less on the sales of British goods abroad than we did in the past and this is decreasing all the time. Therefore the main argument that it will help our exporters decreases every year. Also those businesses who do need to operate in Euros can already obtain Euro bank accounts and many do operate in Euros anyway so we currently enjoy the best of both worlds - our economic independence but with our major EU trading partners having a single currency.
Fifth, a single currency does not make economic sense without harmonized taxes and labour laws both areas in which the UK enjoys a competitive advantage over our EU neighbours therefore it is inevitable that the single currency would be just the beginning of European economic integration. Economically speaking this means that British economic competitiveness would be reduced by our EU neighbours meaning less investment, fewer jobs and lower prosperity in Britain.
Do you have stats to back up your claim over decreasing export earnings? And proof that this is along run trend?
I don't see that labour laws and tax have to be harmonised, it is perfectly reasonable for them to differ within the sytem, the chancellor I believe supports the idea of competitive taxing within the Eurozone, though I do not feel this a major issue.
I saw an article suggesting the growth and stability pact be adjusted to take account of the full employment govt budget deficit rather than the cyclical measure now used, seems very sensible...........
Manufacturing as a proportion of UK employment has fallen from 30% in 1978 to 17% in 1998 according to the Annual Employment Survey. According to the BBC 80% of British firms do not trade abroad. Therefore this shows the long run trend of deindustrialisation in the economy.
The whole point behind the Euro is economic union - that is why it is called economic and monetary union. In order for the single interest rate and single currency to be able to do their jobs effectively you need to have a single tax rate and a single set of labour laws so that the effect of any interest rate movements have the same impact for all areas of the Eurozone. The whole direction of Europe as shown in the EU constitution is for harmonisation of these areas, it was only "dropped" on British insistence and the whole trend of Europe is for increasing centralisation so it may not be included in this treaty but it'll be in the next one or the one after that.
I agree that the growth and stability pact needs to be changed to something like the article you read suggests but I was just taking it as it currently is. It will probably be reformed or ditched in the next few years anyway.
Worse than the sun :P
"Trade with the UK's euro partners could grow between 5% and 50% if the UK joins the euro "
"Could" grow "between 5/50%" "Euro partners" - not whole exports