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We should listen to the pope

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
In my opinion, one which I feel is shared by all those who love life, is that in view of the steps being taken to thrust the world into the next world war by the men who believe they all the answers, there seems only one man who seems to make sense.

I'm not religious, and never claimed to be, but the Pope (who I saw preach in Rome last year) seems the only person in power to have any sense of peace.

Religion, or no religion. Why can't we embrace the world and acccept each others beliefs instead of trying to destroy them.

God help us.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL yeah right.
    Why can't we embrace the world and acccept each others beliefs instead of trying to destroy them.

    Nice fantasy but theres been no time in human history when we have managed this so I dont think we will start anytime soon.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    Nice fantasy

    Whats wrong with having a fantasy? If everyone had the same fantasy, and all it takes is mass education then maybe we would achieve what we need in this world. I gave up with most political ideas (eg communism/socialism etc) but perhaps we need a new religion/political idea. Its up to the intellectuals of this world to unite (how that would be achieved I do not know) but I resent apathy and lack of motivation and a sheer unwillingness to just reject ideas that could change this world. Would you be willing to take part in that education if you could do anything in this mess?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Never said anything was wrong with fantasy. It is just that, a fantasy, a pipe dream, wishful thinking. Whatever you want to call it.

    I am anything but apathetic but I am not arrogant enough to think that I can change the nature of the human race. We are different, we do discriminate, people do hate other people.

    However 'enlightened' we claim to be here in the west there will always be people who think differently to us. There will always be people who choose to use violence to solve their problems. We are at a point in our development where we are able to talk about world peace but there are billions of people in the world who are in awful conditions who dont dream of world peace but merely putting food on the table. If the only way these people can feed themselves and their family is via violence and war(like we did in the past) then who are we to say its not allowed.

    It would be great to live in a world with no war, no hunger, no disease. I would love to think it was possible but I dont, not in the next thousand years anyway. Sorry but im a realist and the nature of us humans is quite clear throughout history.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Balddog, don't you think that we need an ideal image or dream to work towards, a goal to acheive, a standard to set??

    Even if the goal is unattainable, it's better to aim high then aim for mediocracy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even if the goal is unattainable, it's better to aim high then aim for mediocracy.

    Well I would rather work toward something that actually helps people rather than working towards something that may never be achieved.

    World peace will never happen in my lifetime, or the lifetime of my children but helping to get rid of hunger, homelessness, discrimination etc is perfectly possible in my lifetime.

    You can stick to trying to wipe out war and ill stick to trying to help people who are in trouble now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Balddog, fair enough, what are you doing to end world hunger??

    I wasn't really refering to any particular problem like world peace/hunger/co-operation, just that whatever you aim for it's better to strive against the odds than be ground down by the inevitable millstone of reality.

    Added to this, I wasn't really gonna post on this thread, it's just that the topic reminds me of that old refrain;-

    "I like the Pope, the Pope tokes dope."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balddog, fair enough, what are you doing to end world hunger??

    What im doing isnt important. I was speaking theoretically, I would rather be doing something that I know will help rather than working toward something that probably isnt even possible.
    whatever you aim for it's better to strive against the odds than be ground down by the inevitable millstone of reality.

    You might have a point there. I used to think that way. I wanted to end war and poverty myself but nowadays I stick to realistic goals. Of course I have the high ideals of what this world should be like and if the opportunity arises I would do my best to further those ideals.

    I would rather help out in the local homeless centre or offer my services to an nursing home than go to an anti-war protest in London.

    Just my opinion. Some people will see ending war as more important than other issues and thats their choice. I like seeing results.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would just like to ask how the cure of the world hunger/poverty problems? Surely these are only curable if there is cooperation between the states. And if there is cooperation, surely that is peace? So... working to fix world hunger et al is another way at looking at a peaceful future.
    And I'm sorry balddog, but I do see world peace happening for my children... There are plenty of organisations working on this problem now... non-governmental organisations that can affect the way things move. Ok they are small now, but are growing daily.
    If they continue growing and spreading, then eventually some(most??) governments will include people from these movements, and then the decisions will be based on world peace / harmony and all that jazz...
    It's not impossible. I think, in fact it is inevitable! But then... I am a believer <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt;
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would just like to ask how the cure of the world hunger/poverty problems?

    Sorry I didnt really make myself clear earlier. I wasnt saying id like to solve world hunger and world poverty but those problems on a local level.

    Nothing on a world scale will be solved for hundreds of years unless something very drastic happens. The world today is more divided than it has ever been in the history of the world.

    Magicman, its good that you can think that way. I disagree, people have been fighting for as long as weve been on this earth. How do you intend on wiping away tens of thousands of years of division and hate?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balddog, while i exscuse my 'arrogance' I still hold to my original point - that peace IS an option. I had little intention of stirring debate, much rather proffering a way forward.

    If we never dream, we can never believe.

    As I say, I believe in peace, some kind of utopian fantasy. If that is my crime then I am as guilty as all the others that did/do to.

    Baldog, quite right, how do we wipe away the ten thousands of years of division and hate? I don't claim to have an answer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just say ten million 'hail marys' and everything will be OK!

    Diesel

    88888888
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ten million hail marys?

    We need a frigging crusade!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is a transcription of Notradamus's predictions for the possible world war III

    Note the use of the word 'might' in the first paragraph:


    'Because of the new awareness the western civilization has come upon,
    and because of the accelerated rate of the shifting of the earth's
    crust, and because of the conjunction of the planets, the war *might*
    be avoided. Depending on the speed at which the natural events occur.
    For as in any civilization, when natural disasters occur this is more
    prominent than military conquest.

    I p252 (cII-40)

    During the time of troubles and WWWIII there will be massive naval,
    air, and land battles. The ultra-secret weapons that are brought
    forth will shock and stun the world.

    I p 272 (cVIII-17)

    The Antichrist will not hesitate to use bacteriological warfare as
    well as conventional warfare, causing hunger, fire and plagues. The
    causative organisms will be more virulent than ever and hence
    increasingly lethal.

    I p 253 (cII-18)

    When the Antichrist is taking over Europe, nuclear weapons will wreak
    havoc like lighting strikes, and from them a "milky rain" will occur.
    Weapons currently beyond our imagination will wreak unparalleled
    devastation. Corpses will litter the landscape. The very earth will
    "cry out in pain". The Antichrist will be so terrible, horrible, and
    powerful that the rightful rulers of countries will be utterly
    terrified and will not do anything to stop his ravages. Entire
    dynasties will be wiped out.

    I p 254 (cIII-19)

    Before the Antichrist takes over a place, he will rain down death and
    destruction so that he can seize without opposition. He will travel
    far from his resting place in doing this. Some of this devastation
    will make past heinous events of the prior world wars "look like
    child's play". Unlike Hitler's "rain of blood" he will use a "rain of
    blood and milk."


    Pretty scary stuff, but I am convinced that we can avoid this. Peace activists all over the world are calling for a worldwide conference. This is what we have to believe in and TRY to keep the faith of peace.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its supremely arrogant to think that one nation or group of nations holds the answer, that other countries are barbaric and must be overcome

    just because something is different, that doesnt mean its wrong

    please dont take this as being something antagonistic or right wing or anything, im as peaceful and socially concerned as the next pacifist, but i think we need to keep an open mind
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i just mean that peace to one person is oppression to another and we cannot solve a problem without creating another one

    (the last message didnt make a whole bunch of sense)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi Mr Peace.. just to comment on your Nostradamus prediction... ermm.. it's trash.
    Sorry!
    How could nostradamus know about 'nuclear weapons', 'bacteriological warfare', and that we called the first two wars WWI and WWII??
    oh yeah... and he is now predicting that a bloke would be called Hitler??? His predictions are dated from the 1200's. Most of these weapons of mass destruction could not even be contemplated... In previous predictions, he has said things like 'fire will come from the sky' and things to that affect.
    I think your transciption has been slightly <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt; doctored to induce fear...
    Cheers...
    Magicman


    End of $0.02 ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you intend on wiping away tens of thousands of years of division and hate?

    BaldDog- one word. Dialogue.

    I know that many people see that as a trite answer, but it works. If people can resolve their differences, they can only do it by talking to each other about them. Working out a solution that works. Acknowledging that they have a difference and work around it. Blowing people up isn't going to solve anything - it just perpetuates the cycle.



    End of $0.02 ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skapunkskanker,

    You hit the nail on the head. Nobody in this world is going to agree and those who arent happy are going to resort to violence.

    Magicman,
    BaldDog- one word. Dialogue.

    But dont you see that people have be trying to go after peace for tens of thousands of years. It would truly be a great day if you could get world leaders to agree on anything. Peoples needs are very different, as Skapunkskanker said, one mans peace is another mans oppression.

    Theres a reason we have not known a period of peace on this earth ever since the first human walked out of his cave and thats the simple fact that we are a warlike race. We kill each other and thats not going to stop for at least several dozen generations.

    Dont get me wrong here, I would love to see world peace and and end to violence but I just cant see it happening for ages. Theres just too much hate in this world. Thousands of years of hatred isnt talked away very easily, just look at NI.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    But dont you see that people have be trying to go after peace for tens of thousands of years. It would truly be a great day if you could get world leaders to agree on anything. Peoples needs are very different, as Skapunkskanker said, one mans peace is another mans oppression.
    Sorry.. I disagree. People haven't really been trying to go after peace. They say it in their heads, but their actions are different. How can any capitalist say that they are working for peace, when they are following a doctrine that makes 'the rich richer and the poor poorer'? This sort of division is always going to create conflict. Also, race relations are only just now starting to head in the right general direction. Tolerance is being learnt, but as you can see in lots of UK and elsewhere, is not exactly at the top of everyone's lists.

    Just as a side point - Daisaku Ikeda (a proponent of world peace) once said 'Education is the slowest means of change, but it is the only means'.

    Basically saying that education of the 'masses' will move towards peace. This isn't necessarily learning the 3 R's it's education on a more profound level - education about who races are, their differences, their religions etc. Celebrating their differences, not punishing them for it.


    End of $0.02 ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    peace isnt like a journey, with a final destination

    it isnt like some form of enlightenment, where finally you reach your goal and everythings great for the rest of forever

    perhpas one day there may be a global lull in the fighting and the disagreements but it will not last for more than that one day

    people will argue, people will be amibtious and competitive, arrogant and selfish. its part of human nature.

    this world is constantly changing: borders, governments, friendships and enemies

    it will be impossible for everything to suddenly stop and become beautiful, as appealing a thought as that is

    but whilst this world is full of people with complex and ever changing minds and opinions, people who strive to get what they want and to better their quality of life, there will be conflict

    dont call me a pessimist; im not. im just realistic

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On second thoughts I guess there was no need to post those predictions...after all, when you consider the amount of translations that his work has had to go through before we understand what we want it to mean.

    I just thought it was interesting.

    Nevertheless, I think we have diverted on a completely tangent from what originally said.

    What, I ask now, are the options for peace? Although many don't feel that we will ever achieve anything remotely close to that given the massive territorial distinctions, what chance has this world got? I think people have to change their whole perspective of themselves and begin to question why we believe in anything (whether it be a god, or a slice of propaganda.

    I think there is a way out of this, and if it means a war on the scale that we are thinking about now, then maybe we will (as a world) begin to learn about what peace really means. But, I'm cynical, to say the least.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually the fastest way to peace would be to create a polit bureu and a communistic economy. Then take over the world. There would be no interfighting because the strict control of the government would play in peoples everyday lives. Go communism!!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There has not been peace for the UK since the end of WW2 (1945).

    The British forces have been in action every single year since 1945 (except for 2 years, I think 1961 & 62, or thereabouts).

    The only dialogue that works is when one side has more power than the other.

    Peace is just a dream, would be nice but never going to happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What we need to do is question the character of morality itself. If we think that we can prevent a war then we must focus on the conditions of permanant peace. What those conditions are I cannot imagine, non-violence? love of humanity?
    In war, we can only envisage peace, and this perpetual war is one which must be solved by those in power. They are the ones who provide security and guarantee peace.

    A poem for you...

    This earth

    I’m just a blip upon this thing,
    That hurtles through the silent sky,
    This vast void.
    And I lie down,
    flat against his gentle back,
    With only gravity to keep me to the floor.

    And I feel so helpless.
    That we should be made to endure this
    Momentous task of living,
    Unsure of what we might crash into;
    Or vanish into.
    I put my ear to the ground.
    Inaudible, as she spins hurriedly on,
    Hope can be heard in the silence.


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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by peacechild:
    There has not been peace for the UK since the end of WW2 (1945).
    ...
    The only dialogue that works is when one side has more power than the other.

    Peace is just a dream, would be nice but never going to happen.

    Slight disagreement here <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt;
    There has not been peace in the world because we haven't worked towards it.
    And sorry... dialogue works. Not only when one side has more power - that isn't dialogue, thats threatening. Dialogue is when both sides start off as equal. Speak about each others points of view, and then find a solution to the problem. OK, it's not fast... but it can and will work.

    And it is going to happen. It's not a pipe dream. People aren't looking for peace which is why there isn't any. Get enough people working towards peace and voila it works!

    End of $0.02 ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well everyone I don't care whether there is peace or war. If countries such as our own and the US are really peaceful we wouldn't need an army. I know there is defense and all that but the fact of the matter is that you don't need an army if you are peaceful. That is why every place in the world has an army illegal or legal, because noone is really peaceful it is all a big joke.

    http://bpbfb.tripod.com
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quote: because noone is really peaceful it is all a big joke.

    Thats not true. Millions believe in peace and we must all think that it CAN be acheived. Pipe dream or not, we all want to live in a world where we can be truly at peace and we have to keep believing. Maybe I am just a idealist, but the diologue of the leaders must always include the words that symbolise peace...Bush is going someway towards that by making symbolic gestures to improve relations with his counterparts.

    Come on all you non-believers! Peace is attainable, but we have to keep up with the philosophy that dictates a different view of our world.

    Peace.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Millions may believe in peace BUT they don't have the power or the weapons.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by peacechild:
    Millions may believe in peace BUT they don't have the power or the weapons.
    They don't need the power or the weapons!
    Just a method of communication. Talk to your friends and neighbours about peace. if everybody did that, and those friends and neighbours talked about and worked towards peace, then soon a majority of people, including governments, would be thinking along peaceful routes... Then they will have the power to stop the use of the weapons.



    End of $0.02 ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by peacechild:
    Millions may believe in peace BUT they don't have the power or the weapons.

    Peacechild, don't you think that is just the sort of attitude that we need to dicourage? Of course we don't have weapons, of course we don't have power...because it is those two very things that are the characteristics of war.

    We need to begin here, right on our doorstep. Remember the saying 'Charity begins at home'? Well, we can start (and by we I mean everyone) by remembering that this mess that we have got ourselves into is one that is a result of the evil of power itself. By disassociating yourself from any form of power and being true to your own philosophy you can bring peace into your own life and those immediately close to you.

    Peace is possible. Always.

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