If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
Reperations from England to victims of Lawrence; the Acadians
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
After the French & Indian War which ended in 1757 your Lawrence ordered the Acadians to surrender all of their arms...after which he ordered the Acadians of what is today Nova Scotia onto ships and barges and deported them out of the land at gun point.
The Acadians were stripped of every possession and many died from this act of genocide...and with interest building from 1757 the ammount today would be considerable.
So I am puting it to you as a direct descendant of those very Acadians who england so horribly victimized...how do you feel about reparations for the horrible crime of your ancestors? About ten million pounds to every descendant of a survivor ought to be about appropriate, don't you think?
With that though I must go, however, I will be back to discuss this with you who remain subjects of the crown.
Diesel
88888888
The Acadians were stripped of every possession and many died from this act of genocide...and with interest building from 1757 the ammount today would be considerable.
So I am puting it to you as a direct descendant of those very Acadians who england so horribly victimized...how do you feel about reparations for the horrible crime of your ancestors? About ten million pounds to every descendant of a survivor ought to be about appropriate, don't you think?
With that though I must go, however, I will be back to discuss this with you who remain subjects of the crown.
Diesel
88888888
0
Comments
Really, time is not a bar concerning such things...after, I'm not asking for someone's head on a pole in front of my house...just ten million pounds for the descendant of each survivor...this could be watered down a bit where Cajun folk have taken to themselves 'foreign' wives and such.
And consider, this may be the perfect distraction to the atrocities of the crown in Ireland...and later the brits could also pay reparations to the Irish survivors...perhaps I'm premature on this one because I assume that there will be survivors.
Diesel
88888888
Look, someone has to pay any putative reparations, right? The money isn't going to drop out of thin air. So, who will pay it? If it comes from those responsible, then they are atoning for their crime. If not, then it is either a gift or theft depending on whether the money is transferred willingly or not.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a legal principle that only those responsible for the commission of a crime are to be held to account for it?
Yes, I like that idea, let the 'crown' pay the piper for the misdeed.
Diesel
88888888
You aure there werent any Americans involved? Wouldnt sound so good if the descendants of any British-American soldiers had to pay now would it.
ROFL you cant help yourself can ya. I guess us dastardly Brits have an awful lot to atone for dont we.
Molon Labe
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
The point about the Jews is that there are still living survivors of the Holocaust, and living war criminals.
Is the Government of the USA gonna hand all the land back to the Native Americans and pay out damages for their slaughter and rape of their natural resources?? Can't really see that happening.......
Only users lose drugs
I am responsible for my own actions and those alone, I don't wish to claim money from the french for their invasion of my country in 1066.... it doesn't work like that..
I'm not saying what happened to your grandfathers etc. was justified but it is nothing to do with the present generation, we have different values...
People need to let the past die and instead of blaming everyone for what happened, accept it was wrong and indeed tragic and try and prevent such a thing happening in the future.
But we do have survivors...on both sides...and really, reparations aren't really that bad if the crown pays...no worse than x-slaver asking for reparations from the descendants of slavemasters (I am also one of the latter...we held 600 slaves, mostly bought from british slavers.)
As an aside, the Cajuns were also deported out of Acadia because they would not give up their Catholic religion in favor of the then currently popular protestantism in england...and I can't remember ever meeting a family member who was a Catholic...go figure!
Anyway, while I'm supporting the IRA it best be known that I also support the orangemen being armed as well...if all sides are well armed and the brits but out...there will be a polite society in N. Ireland...and with any luck at all england will be liberated by a great patriotic movement originating from their shores.
Diesel
88888888
Surely you dont mean survivors from the French-Indian wars? Well yes of course you can say its ok because the blacks are demanding reperations for slavery..If they get it why shouldnt I? kinda thing. I guess thats down to your own conscience.
If you truly believe that then I credited you with more brains than you have. If you arm both sides and then remove the Brit army and RUC then I think you will see an awful lot of bloodshed.
Interesting how you and I always seem to get onto this subject <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
honestly? don't give a toss - we all descended from the same two people if you think about it, so you'd end up paying me too - ie you would lose 10 mill and gain 10 mill. a massive profit of sweet fuck all, i believe
you think the brits *want* to be involved? we have to be involved because there is a lot of people who don't want to be run by those in ireland and be under that kind of government - and mainland UK couldn't happily support that vast influx of people if they were forced to move
england can't be liberated, no chance of that, for liberation you need mass uprising. in this day and age, if that happens it doesn't have a lot to do with the irish
arming everyone wouldn't solve anything, just makes for more bloodshed. that what you're after? if so - i want some compensation because i have some mates over there. 50 grand will do nicely, per head.
Playing with fire will ultimately see you burnt <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/ukliam2.gif">
I thought you were in favour of guns for use in self defence not terrorism. How can you justify innocent people getting killed. The IRA kills innocent people so the British army kills IRA and we are in the wrong? Your fucked in the head mate!
The problems in Northern Ireland can not be sorted out with guns. You Americans are the main funding for the IRA. It's your money going into guns and bombs to help them kill innocent people in Northern Ireland and here in mainland Britain.
The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain just that. They don't want to be part of Ireland. The IRA is the minority. The innocent people in Northern Ireland who want to remain part of the UK are the majority. This is democracy at work! We don't want to but out coz the peole there are British - we can't but out.
The IRA are pure evil cunts. Peole like you, who support them are no better or foolish. One of the two!
Forward ever
Backward never
[This message has been edited by Skive'n'Dive (edited 19-07-2001).]
But, the Native American is not so bad off now. Granted it is not like it used to be, but what is.
Im not flaming the Brits. It is just that when the colonies were formed under British rule, the goals may not have been the same as when they separated from England. This country was founded on some very old ideas. Our founding fathers were members of secret societies that have been around for hundreds of years. Societies focused on science, humanities and the occult. They established the government on doctrine that England rejected.
This is very true, as well as the fact that federal agencies have some restrictions on reservations. Also the Native American has many government programs available to them we don't.
on the other hand, after ww1, germany was required to pay reparations to france (and in smaller sums britain) for damage done. except that these reparations, as with every form since the procedure began, are not about REPAIR but about REVENGE. the victor wants the loser to PAY for what they've done. this kind of thing usually ends up in disaster - reparations broke the weimar economy in 1924, which indirectly contributed to the rise of one Adolf Hitler. however, post-1945, the western allies demanded no reparations from west germany, but instead helped her rebuild. turned out quite nicely dont you think.
my point is twofold;
(i) reparations are a revenge measure, therefore
(ii) they are only any use when they can actually repair damage done. what use would it be paying the Acadians' (or any others')descendants vast sums of money, when it wont actually make any difference to those long-dead people who suffered. instead, it will simply soothe the wounded ego of a group of people, who will be made richer as a result (which essentially amounts to discrimination). nothing will have truly been set right - those outrages will still have occurred, and no financial compensation can ever re-write history.
NB: in legal terms, if you cant sue someone for stealing your car, why should you sue them for stealing your land. its a criminal offence, but the perpetrators are long dead, so the case has no legal grounding.
why bother squabbling over the past - every nation or people has done something wrong in their history, and everyone would juts sue one another, and the only ones to get rich are the lawyers <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"> instead, look to the future, work together, and GROW THE FUCK UP. people and nations arent like infants - things only work if we all agree to work together. and when i say that, i dont mean working together to make people in the US and UK or the rest of the developed world better off. i mean to help the ones who have really deserve it, whether by our fault or not - the millions of starving children in africa, the peoples being massacred every day in sierra leone and other countries just so their rulers can sell diamonds to the develoepd world. these are the problems that need to be concentrated on, not 'who did what three centuries ago'. get real.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
The truth is, whatever you care to call the Irish, IRA, etc., the violence will continue whether it be firearms or home mead plastic explosive, etc., that distracts from the real problems in britan.
Arm both sides and get out of the way, let them settle it and I doubt the killing will continue.
My bet is that the british WANT to be in N. Ireland because it provides an appropriate distraction to the 'subjects' of the crown...much as did Viet Nam for US...a distraction which keeps the people's minds off the problems at home.
Britan will simply loose the battle of the whomb and cave in from within...leaving the question of what to do in your own house begging!
Diesel
88888888
Blowing men, women and children up is no way to win support and succeed in there aim. Obviously some sick fucks support this. Are you one of them? Are you condoning the killing of innocent people? It sure sound like it.
I don't have a problem with Irish people. I have a problem with Terrorists such as the IRA.
As for our governament wanting to be in Northern Ireland for distraction purposes, what planet are you on? Why the fuck do we want bombs going off in every major city around the country unexpectedly? Your nuts.
We are the ones pushing for peace. We have withdrawn the army and still they hold on to their guns. They have yet to provide a gesture of good will for this peace process. Our government on the otherhand has allowed IRA terrorists out of jail, given Northern Ireland a lot more power to govern itself yet still they want war.
I hate all terrorists both the IRA and the Loyalists so I'm not one sided. Both are to blame for the troubles. Our government dosn't deal with terrorists. We are quite happy to deal with a political movement on the otherhand in a diplomatic manner, but for some unknown reason they still like to blow innocent people up.
Do you not understand that the majority of people that live in Northern Ireland want to reamain British? This is the problem.
You really think arming both sides will sort it? I can't believe I'm even discussing this with you then. You do that and you'll end up with a state like Isreal. Constant civil war. It would be better to come to a soloution with no more killing. This is the difference between the British and the IRA. The British are happy for it to end peacefully. The IRA scum and there supporters think it would be better to kill more innocent people to reach a soloution. Your off your trolly mate!
Forward ever
Backward never
Interesting opinion you have of whhy the US got in to Vietnam - not the conventional 'domino theory' then? but thats not the point.
it has took thirty years or so in Northern Ireland to get from Bloody Sunday to the Good Friday agreement, and you think that could all have been skipped by arming the IRA and UDF to the teeth, and letting them at one another?!
to be honest, i'd describe northern ireland as a 'real problem in britain', but if you think there are more important ones (more important than children growing up in a virtual warzone, racked by divisions, and having an uncertain future) then i'd be pleased to hear them, as i'm sure would Mr Blair. I dont pretend to be an expert on Ireland, but the topic is of some personal interest to me, so I have studied it. on the other hand, it would appear that your comments have little basis in reality. do you honestly believe the only solution to northern ireland is to have the militants kill themselves and everyone in the province? because that is what you imply.
i refuse to believe that that is the only solution - we can solve this problem, we can build a better future for the children of northern ireland, but we must be wary of making the same mistakes made by so many british politicians since Cromwell. better to understand and work for peace than say 'fuck the lot of them' and not bother, dont you think?
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
[This message has been edited by dazed_dan (edited 19-07-2001).]
Isn't this another example of the blame culture (aka Money for old rope)?
The IRA will not stand down, and rightly so! A look at british history is all the reason that is needed. Get the rest of the troops out and let them be about their own business...I'm sure the rest of Ireland would be equally happy about this also.
Really, it is not about being Irish so much as it is about not being 'subjects' to the crown. As for the religion...before the catholics there was an Irish church...! The notion of it being a religious war is preposterous...it is an anti british war.
It is ssssooooo hard to give up that which you have held by force for so long...but give it up you must.
IRA cells in London using explosives to get your attention must truly be terifying...certainly the devistation must be reminiscent of WW-II and the buzbombs suddenly strikeing.
Anyway, get britan out of Ireland and all will be well...they are no longer subjects but have taken up arms and will not stand down...free men these.
Diesel
88888888
The Americans came to their shores as invaders. The protestants have been in Ireland for as long as the Americans have been in America, surely if the Protestants arent Irish by now then the Americans cant class themselves as belonging to the American landmass.
Are you seriously saying that all the protestants should move to England? Give up the homes theyve lived in for 300 years? If the native americans started bombing DC would you guys move back to England or where ever else you came from?
I dont know how many times I have to tell you this but the majority of people in NI want to be 'subjects' of the crown and remain British.
NI has not been held by force since the early 20th century. Its been held by democratic process since then. Only reason the soldiers are there is to stop the IRA blowing up IRISH kids. They have, after all killed far more irish citizens than security forces.
Again you are wrong. Yes, a TINY minority of the Irish have decided they want NI as part of the republic but most people in NI WANT TO REMAIN SUBJECTS...Your grand arguments of freedom in the face of tyranny do not work in this situation as it just isnt the case. No one is fighting for freedom, Ireland was freed 80 years ago, NI wanted and still wants to stay British.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
Citizens? Subjects? We'll see, because you will tire of this onerous chore and leave in disgust over your failed faith in an empire lost and all but forgotten.
BTW, I have been to your country, found the folks I met friendly...though the language you speak is almost incomprehensible to me...!
And then we hear that the Scotch wish to take back their own country also...being british is a full time job from the sound of things.
Diesel
88888888
they wouldnt be there if there wasnt some kind of gagging tension to blow everything up and kill people
bullshit, as if the majority of people care about losing the commonwealth. they want their independence, that's fine. at first there was a worry but times have changed - the issue here is for the will of those that want NI to be a place of safety and not some kind of bomb site for the IRA to terrorise people with
no, they want their own parliament and not to be governed from westminister. scotland is completely different, being half scots and having spent a lot of time up there, your comments couldn't be more wrong. the people up there just want to be able to govern themselves and they've got that - not by throwing bombs at the capital, but by political persuasion. if i saw a scot, he wouldn't be a foreigner, he'd be a brit. complete difference to people such as yourself who want nothing to do with it.
Playing with fire will ultimately see you burnt <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/ukliam2.gif">
You deplore terrorism yet you support the IRA who are terrorists. You've lost me mate!
The army wern't in NI to keep it British, they're their to protect the majority of people living there (catholican and Protestant) from terrorist like the IRA whose bombs kill mainly innocent people.
Forward ever
Backward never
i don't think you know what you're talking about.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">
Yes, all honorable men and women should deplore 'terorism' but, at the same time recognize that it is a recognized tool used by the oppressed and otherwise powerless to fight the oppressor...in this case britan.
No, I don't want to see women and children hurt...and from the reports we get in US it appears that warnings are given by the IRA before a bomb goes off.
As for all the 'wonderful' things you say you are doing for the folks in NI...I can only add...Why bother? They hate you anyway...and now that they have become free men and citizens you have bugger all of a chance to get them to stand down and hand in their weapons...once free it really is hard to go back to being a subject.
In the US we also have 'bombinbs' and such...when our government abused folks at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Texas, etc., a lot of emotion was raised...when Timothy McVeigh blew up a building, a federal building, full of workers and children...he acted alone as a 'Phineas Priest' to retaliate against US for the actions against our fellow citizens...and was exicuted showing no shame, no regret, and dam sure no apology...we in the US are not strangers to terror attacks.
When your tyranical government disarmed its subjects...it set the stage for the use of easy to make explosives, etc.
And I must digress a bit...lest you think that I hate the english...truly I don't. I find what you, as a nation, have done to yourselves and others at least as bad as how you perceive the IRA attacks against you...and with that thought...maybe the IRA will yet free england from it's throne and make of subjects free men...a thought that apparently scares many.
We seem to have strayed from the notion of reparations for victims and their descendants...and reparations are called for all around...Start with the Irish...it'll give them much needed monies to rebuild a society fractured for so many years by your occupation.
Diesel
88888888
i don't know how it's reported on the news in america, but i'm pretty sure from what you're saying that the IRA is heavily glamourised into something it blatently isn't.
where's the northen irish when you need them?
*calls for snoop and shazza etc. to come and explain things*
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">
i'm pretty positive that they don't want it.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">
Diesel, i see myself as a free man. i do not see myslef as a tyrannised subject of the crown. i see myself as a free citizen who elects his leaders, and can do so without threat of being killed if i vote for the 'wrong side'. you clearly have an orwellian talent for doublethink - you support the IRA, yet deplore terrorism. hmmm. tell you what, go and live in county antrim during marching season, and find out for yourself just what the IRA is like. if you make it out alive.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Honestly, no offense is intended...what you call yourselves really is what is proper for you. I hear brit, british, english, etc., and it is all a big swirl...keep looking for terms such as Afro-british; Asian-british; Paki-brit; etc., etc. and don't quite know how you incorporate all the 'ethnic' sources of your population to identifiable names...such as 'Afro-American,' etc.
Demonizeing the IRA certainly isn't making it easier for you to deal with their control over the security of england when through acts of 'terror' they demonstrate that your government can't protect you...and because you are disarmed subjects you aren't allowed to protect yourselves....
I have to wonder what the next really awful problem will be for your island nation...noting that the Pakistanis are quite adept weapons producers and are probably a likely source for many of the weapons prohibited to you...making copies that can't be distinguised from the originals...we do hear of so called 'skinheads' going up against 'Asians' and brawling in the streets...that will have to get deadly...and they are probably winning the battle of the whomb too.
Being on the Pacific side of US...we have a bit of a time difference in our communcations...not trying to ignore anyone, but we sleep when you play.
Diesel
88888888