Are we too PC these days?

Former Member

I have a feeling that the whole PC (political correct) is a bit over the top in our society now. Everything we said, even if we don't really mean to, if the words are not carefully chosen, can be accused as racism, sexism, discrimination, anti-social, etc all these labels coming up to us.

For example, if a few men together using the word 'birds' to mean girls, then some girls would say them sexist. If you describe a Parkistian a 'Parki' then people would say you are racist, even though you don't mean to laugh at him or in anyway look down at him. If you see a disabled person, it could be offensive if you ask him/her questions about the disability. At my work, I always try to avoid to make comment or ask anything about a person's physical apperance.

So are we over conscious of being PC? Bear in mind something people don't speak doesn't necessary mean that is not what they think. If they are not allowed to express themselves freely, would eventurally different groups of people get more and more isolated?


(edited because I was not pc enough!)

[ 09-05-2002: Message edited by: Nice Kick ]

Former Member

Yes we are getting too PC but im not sure I think the things you pointed out are a problem..

Calling women birds is no problem..Its equivalent to calling men, blokes.

The Paki thing is just a matter of respect. The word is basically just a short version of pakistani but its been changed into a derogatory term these days..It does offend a lot of people and thats reason enough not to use it IMO.

Disabled people..Well I think thats mainly to do with people being uncomfortable around the disabled..Lots of people expect the disabled to be offended but most of them arent, not just asking about their disability.

Former Member

They are just some examples. What I am trying to point out is that in many occasions, people do not really mean to be disciminating on others but unfortunately being accused of racist or that sort of label. Certainly not allowing people commenting on something wouldn't change the way they think. Also not allowing people to have a laugh would just make things worse.

Think about in the past this was never an issue but now it is. The thing if a society is pc, does that mean it is truly tolarence? Or is it just hiding somethings which should be talked about?

Former Member

Originally posted by Nice Kick:
<STRONG>Think about in the past this was never an issue but now it is. The thing if a society is pc, does that mean it is truly tolarence? Or is it just hiding somethings which should be talked about?</STRONG>

Yep and thats one of the reasons why the far right are gaining so much support right across Europe..Nobody else will talk about certain issues because they are terrified of being called racist/sexist/agist etc etc etc

Former Member

Originally posted by Balddog:
<STRONG>Yep and thats one of the reasons why the far right are gaining so much support right across Europe..Nobody else will talk about certain issues because they are terrified of being called racist/sexist/agist etc etc etc</STRONG>

Partly.

To say that this has never been a problem in the past is a little naive I think.
It's never been a problem because we've never had a more multicultural society than we have now. Britain only started importing foreigners en masse in the 50s. Fifty years is not very long in terms of Britian's history, so of course it is a new issue.

Now that we are getting 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants being born in this country, tolerance can only improve. They are no longer seen as outsiders, but as part of our modern society.

Also, we shouldn't confuse PC with being respectful. Calling someone a 'Paki' isn't nice because it has been corrupted and turned into a derogatory insult. It's not difficult to respect that, it is just common courtesy.

It gets over-the-top when toll booths are no longer 'manned'; they are 'personed'. That's just ridiculous, and most anti-sexist PC terms generally do go too far the wrong way.

Former Member

I remember hearing that some femminists were developing a female urinal. Because apparantly, men standing up to take a piss symbolised mans domanance over women. I don't think that they relised that it's not very practical for women to do it standing up. And to think that these people could be spending their money on something useful. It's a mad world.

Former Member

Originally posted by Another statistic:
<STRONG> Because apparantly, men standing up to take a piss symbolised mans domanance over women. </STRONG>

<IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> please don't make me laugh

Former Member

Originally posted by Ilson-Youth:
<STRONG>How can blacks, pakistanis and indiands etc.. expect to be intergrated into society, when they are being highlighted and sectioned off by busybodies thinking that they are protecting them, and looking after their best interests..</STRONG>

Excellent point there mate..

Its not actually the ethnic minorities that are causing the problems..Its the white, middle class liberals who think they know whats best for these people and will 'protect' them whether they want it or not.

Former Member

I think there's two issues encompassed by the despicable phrase "political correctness". First, there's the absurd things, like female urinals and banning Thomas the Tank Engine. This isn't political correctness; it's insanity. But in a way it's the bigger, more dangerous problem, because it obfuscates what being "politically correct" should really be about.

That's where the second strand comes in; genuine bias or insults against people based upon race, sex, sexuality, disability etc purely on the grounds of them belonging to a particular group. Calling something "politically correct" is an easy way for pernicious racists, sexists etc to deride steps taken to protect those groups. I think I've used this quote by Clare Short before, but I'll use it again because it demonstrates the point quite nicely:

Political correctness is a concept invented by hard-right forces to defend their right to be racidst, to treat women in a degrading way and to be truly vile about gay people. They invent this idea of people who are politically correct, with a rigid, monstrous attitude to life so they can attack them. But we have all had to learn to modify our language. That's all part of being a decent human being.

I think the insane elements of political correctness are stupid and people who attempt to carry them out should be executed, or something. But on the real issues, so-called political correctness is important for ensuring the safety and happiness of all members of society and preventing discrimination. We need to abandon the term "political correctness" and come up with a way to differentiate between the two, so we can end the ease with which bigots are able to criticise.

Former Member

As weird as it feels, I do agree with you there Vox..

Political correctness is not bad in itself. Its only when taken to the extreme that it starts to get bad..Im right wing and I dont associate political correctness with anything bad, its just another word for tolerance and manners IMO...When blackboards are renamed to chalkboards because they might offend black people, then thats the kind of extreme political correctness that causes trouble.

Former Member

*must use the word 'obfuscate' more often <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">*

Former Member

There is an important distinction to make.

There is respect, which is when you treat someone how you would want to be treated yourself. That means avoiding terms of abuse eg paki.

Then there is political correctness, which is when the liberals get hold of this concept an twist is. By trying to suggest that we are all the same they are deluding themselves. We are different and we should celebrate those diffrences rather than hide them...

The latest example of absurd PC approaches is a minimum quota for MP, meaning that each ethnic group and sex should have representation approaching the equivalent of the population..ie 51% women (god help us <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">)...the main proponent of this is Diane Abbot MP, a racist, who believes in 'positive' discrimination. I hate her with a passion I usually reserve for the BNP.

Former Member

Positive discrimination is sickening and creates a lot of bad feeling where there does not need to be one. Things like a guaranteed interview for disabled applicants and jobs only for people from certain backgrounds (which is never white). Equality will come but not overnight.

We had a lecture about political correctness a while ago. It was actually very interesting. Some words have nasty meanings rooted in them from slave ages. I agree that it goes too far (eg you're not allowed gingerbread men).

To continue the slagging of Birmingham city council (hate them), here are some other examples of things they have done:

-Renamed an area of Birmingham as Apna Town and changed all the signs so they were in Urdu or something like that

- Renamed Christmas as Winterval so it didn't offend anyone, none of the Christmas lights in town were allowed to have the word Christmas on

-No funding for St Georges Day, huge parades for St Patricks Day and a big party for Vaikshaki (don't know how to spell it).

<IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

I agree with you all especially Vox's point. I cannot understand who is actually offended by some of this gibberish they ban, tis very confusing...

positive discrimination is very dangerous, if there are less women MPs then so what, as long as we ensure that they are not discriminated against if they actually apply for the job...

for Vaikshaki

whats that?

Former Member

It's a festival of lights for Hindus (I THINK! Don't kill me if I am wrong).

Former Member

the claire short quote is brilliant, vox, and summarises exactly what I think. Yes, Political Correctness has gone too far. But consider the alternative. It's necessary to err on the side of caution because a society which is careless about these things gives licence to real racists to get away with it. For instancE: you may not mean offence when you call someone a paki, or even ****** or coon - but these phrases all have associations which are unpleasant for nayone you use them to. It doesn't matter if a pakistani is present or not: the point is by using them you perpetuate them and make it easy for real racists to get away withit because they can juts pretend it isn't meant to be offensive. A society which tolerates racism passively by not taking it seriously is hardly any better than a society which is actively racist. I'd rather silly PC things, which don't really o much harm, than go too far the other way. Maybe in 100 years it won't be necessary to be too careful - because hopefully noone will even think there is a possible negative connotation of a patricular phrase or term. Until then - it's worth it.

Former Member

wow! the site blanked out an offensive term I used as an example in my post automatically. That's rather impressive - and very PC! <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

Originally posted by Prufrock:
<STRONG>wow! the site blanked out an offensive term I used as an example in my post automatically. That's rather impressive - and very PC! <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

hehe

i suppose someone'd whinge at them if they didn't <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

I agree that positive discrimination is a dangerous thing. I think that it's sickening that if someone attacks someone because of the colour of their skin it's seen as a more serious crime that attacking someone for any other reason or even for no reason. Isn't this just saying someones pain is more important than someone elses.

I thought that I'd give you all another laugh. Personally I think that's this is quite disturbing. My friends mum was at an interview for a job at Social Services when her interviewer asked her how she would like her coffee. When she said black, the interviewer said that she was not suitible for the job because the correct term to use was with or without milk.

Former Member

Originally posted by Another statistic:
<STRONG>I agree that positive discrimination is a dangerous thing. I think that it's sickening that if someone attacks someone because of the colour of their skin it's seen as a more serious crime that attacking someone for any other reason or even for no reason. Isn't this just saying someones pain is more important than someone elses.

</STRONG>
It is a serious crime if the attacker preys on someone solely because of the colour of that person's skin.
It's disgusting, and is much worse than a simple mugging.

<STRONG>she was not suitible for the job because the correct term to use was with or without milk.</STRONG>

That's what they told your mum's friend <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

Crime 1. The police are institutionally racist.

Former Member

Originally posted by Ilson-Youth:
<STRONG>1. 4 White males beat up a skateboarder.. pinch his skateboard, nick his mobile, and break his rib or something.

2. 4 White males beat up a black male, nick his mobile and break a rib or something.

Which crime is going to be dealt with the quickest and most thoroughly?</STRONG>

I see what you're saying, but in that case I don't thing it would be the police to jump on the racist badwagon - more likely the local press trying to hype up a non-story.

Originally posted by Vox populi, vox Dei:
<STRONG>Crime 1. The police are institutionally racist

</STRONG>
It's attitudes like that which have led to the massive increase in street crime in London in recent years - the police are now wary of stopping black youths on the streets for fear of being labelled as racist.

Former Member

Originally posted by Ilson-Youth:
<STRONG>For instance, Jonathen Woodgate, he was involved in some way, in the beating up an asian student, so hes a racist thug.
Even though the asian student was just as likily to have been a mouthy shit causing trouble.</STRONG>

Er...I think that had more to do with what he was alledged to have said before he started chasing him...

Former Member

I bought this up a few months ago with a simialr thing with social services and coffee (social services, SS, hmmmmmmmm now THATS an apt acronym. (is it an acronym <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> ) )

I made the point that PC is curtailing our language and waaaaaaay too many people are ignoring the bigotry and hatred behind the word, and concentrating on the word itself.

Words are the core of thought, ergo by limiting our words we limit our thought.

*need to sit down after that one*

Sandy Toksvig made a really good point on Question Time a few weeks ago. Every home in Denmark flies the Danish flag with pride, if you had a Union Jack flying outside your house, pound to a pinch of shit you'd be branded a racist!

Former Member

Originally posted by Ilson-Youth:
<STRONG>Whats up with parki? in my opinion he's one of the best talk show hosts of the past 30 years</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

Originally posted by Ilson-Youth:
<STRONG>

Whats up with parki? in my opinion he's one of the best talk show hosts of the past 30 years</STRONG>

Yeah I know I couldnt type!!!

Former Member

Originally posted by Ilson-Youth:
<STRONG>My personal thought would of been that the police would of dealt with the attack on the black bloke far quicker and harsher, as it would of instantly been assumed that it was a racist attack... even though the crimes were identical, it would be assumed that one was racist, and therefore if the police dont treat it as such, then they too are being racist.

Is every attack by a white person on a non-white person, a racist attack?
</STRONG>

I share the same feeling with you, it seems these days, if a black or asian is involved, then the white is highly suspected of being racist. In my last job, I've seen a black guy complained of being discriminated as being black when clearly it was his own fault.

And also I've seen in the streets in London, some gangs of black guys verbally attacked white guys. So racist can be the other way too, whites can also be victims.

Sorry to sound so 'racist', I also wish to see a society where everyone gets on well and treated equal. But unless the whole PC attitude changed, that wont happen.

Former Member

I'm convinced the police are institutionally racist, simply because much better informed people than me - ie those behind the governmental inquiry in the wake of the Stephen Lawrence case - seem to think so. though I think it's getting better.
I do think a racially motivated mugging is worse, because it has an extra dimension of horribleness. And the reason less people get done for black on white racially motivated crime is because - well - there's less of it. More black youths commit crime in general, but racially motivated attacks are lower, apparently. Then again, these statistics could be bollocks.

Former Member

Call me a ni**er but don't call me PC! OTOH, there is no excuse for being rude!

Discussing guns is not PC...is it?

Former Member

Originally posted by Diesel:
<STRONG>

Discussing guns is not PC...is it?</STRONG>

Did the initial test drive on my newest "tree-hugger-friendly, non-threatening, politically correct" FAL today. Green synthetic furniture, so less offensive to gentle sensitivities than evil black GUNZ! <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Last round through the first magazine, aimed at a piece of 1/2" dowell, 9" tall, at 150 yds. When I looked through the binocs, the top half was gone! <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Since this is an "earth friendly" GREEN rifle, and NO trees were sacrificed to my obsession, is the rifle now considered "PC"? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

T, you tree hugging FAL Aholic you...I still don't know which cheekrest you are talking about...DSA has three different ones...????

<IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">