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Iraqi war part of a divine plan?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=615&e=19&u=/nm/20030404/pl_nm/iraq_bush_europe_dc_2
That's what Bush said. Is there any wonder Arabs might view the war as part of a crusade. I think the "separation of church and state" idea that we got from France and is in our constitution is a big deal. I have no problem with a President believing in God. But it comes up a lot and it's creeping me out.
That's what Bush said. Is there any wonder Arabs might view the war as part of a crusade. I think the "separation of church and state" idea that we got from France and is in our constitution is a big deal. I have no problem with a President believing in God. But it comes up a lot and it's creeping me out.
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damn I need to calm my psycho brain down. :eek2: :crazyeyes
The notion of separation of church and state does lack credibility when the principal advisors to an administration as in the case of the present admin represent the hardline Christian/Zionist movement of the nation.
One reason amongst many why I turned from my once starry eyed support of Republicans who tend to cater to this camp far too tightly for the good of the nation.
Also, Clandestine have you ever met a born again Christian who was tolerant of other's views? I haven't. They always want to save me. And I say thanks, but I'm a Catholic. And that still doesn't stop them. This goes on on the boardwalk in Wildwood all the time.
It's just Dubya expressing his Christianity (as usual
I didn't think that you would, or many on this board. I support and defend the U.S. No secret there.
Your blind and unquestioning adherence to Washington is hardly the act of one who's concern is for the greater welfare of our country.
Now if someone did a bio on him and said he's religious or born again...that's fine.
Sadly a great many such people are in power around the world. Perhaps that's where we got it wrong? Power to the atheists!
The constitutions says there will be a separations of church and state meaning that no religion can run the government. It does not say that leaders can't be religious. I want no religion to run my life.
No, I don't feel you support the U.S.A. you support a socialist or communist vision for america. My actions of the last 21 years protecting this nation speak for how much I care about the welfare of our country. I have followed the orders of all of the Presidents since Ronald Reagan irrespective of their politics. So I blindly follow no man/woman. You appear to blindly follow the left wing governments of europe. It is your right to do so. Stay there.
Heck even Ashcroft is a fundamentalist nutcase. Just goes to show how easily the nation lets authoritarian elements take over without question.
How so?
I follow no particular Party and never have, apart from my first vote at age 18 when i was young and naive about such matters that is. Nowadays I do not find any one party to be capable of answering the diverse needs and requirements of all of society and therefore focus on individual candidates and their record as a guage of their likely priorities and practices whilst in office.
To boast of your willingness to do the dirty work of warmongering administrations as opposed to those who have truly sacrificed their lives in actual defence of our nation (which has not been directly and plausibly threatened since WWII) clearly indicates your willingness to further whatever corrupt self interests Washington has chosen to send our men and women into combat to obtain. This is not patriotism, it is unquestioning mercenary aggression and has no place in a just society.
My interest is in seeing America restored to its foundational principles of justice, political accountability and adherence to the Constitution. Something that Washington has systematically undermined throughout my lifetime and undoubtedly far longer.
That you can claim to believe in our nation and at the same time launch the typical closed minded verbal assault, so prevalent amongst right wing militants in our country today only demonstrates further that you have little comprehension or appreciation for the founding principles, in defence of which you seem to believe you were sent to fight. Fact is, you werent sent to defend those principles, but merely to do the dirty work of the administration(s) of the day. The true patriots were the ones unmasking the lies and deceptions back home so you could have those freedoms to come home to.
You might be content to sit back glibly whilst our capitol becomes the bastion of an elected tyranny, but I and many others who share my views believe our nation deserves a better future than the one envisioned in the Bush doctrine (which is frighteningly akin to the principles that fueled Nazi Germany).
The man's background undermines whatever claims to Christianity he might make.
More than that one need look at his supposed doctrine of conquest and plunder as well as the nature and backgrounds of the people he has surrounded himself with. This is no cadre of sainthood I assure you.
Clandestine doesnt appear to in my eyes, but that is an irrelevance. Why CANT he support the USA in line with Socialist principles, why CANT he want a better USA whilst being a Socialist. In the US Constitution freedom of expression and freedom of political thought is of high importance, yet successive administrations, starting as far back as McCarthy, have undermined that part of the Conjstitution to the point of irrelevance.
Dont forget that you lot started out as outlaws who questioned the status quo of the day, and only defeated the British with French money. Why is this status quo better than any other, what attributes of perfection does it have...if it is not perfect it should be questioned and improved. If people didnt do that youd still be some two-bit colony in the middle of nowhere. Dont forget that.
When terms like "un-American" become the fashion, we are not too far from the sort of authoritarian thought control that was the hallmark of the Soviet system itself. For a country which made Communism into the most dangerous evil imaginable, it never ceases to amaze me how much the choice of rhetoric from Washington (and those who refuse to question it) echos that of our longtime foes.
The US Government uses the same terms because its aims were the same asthe USSR, and as any other Government. Some Governments hide behind democracy, for what its worth, and some dont. All need to control their populations by creating enemies to justify draconian measures of control with.
People like HK who lap it up are brilliant for those who are in power merely to extend their family's ill-gotten gains. Secretly I bet Bush wishes he could do what Stalin did; he already seems to have the same regard for the US Constitution that Stalin did.
I dunno, they seem to be making a better fist of it than McCarthy, with all those plants at the Oscars making Michael Moore look stupid. It was even believable...the US public seemed to lap it up when Fox told them all about it
Put enough spin and polish on anything and a disturbingly high percentage of my countrymen will lap it up and believe every word the government tells them without question.
Its been a continual and systemic facet of American life for longer than ive been alive which is why very few in America would ever believe they are being propagandized, I know I certainly didnt know how much I was not being told until I ventured into the world for myself. To most, propaganda is what other governments perpetrate on their people, not our own.
This is what also breeds the arrogance that is all to often demonstrated when the international community attempts to call US policy into question. It is also what is preventing many Americans from comprehending why there is rising hatred and an eventual backlash being directed toward us.
When a nation is not forced to confront differing perspective on a constant basis as are most countries in the world, the resulting smugness leads first to a cessation of viable public debate and ultimately to rampant blind nationalism. And we've all seen where nationalists have lead countries, even in the not too distant past. Step by step even my own country is succumbing to this dangerous tendency.
The American public dont see the effects of American imperialism on the world, so dont understand why so many people are upset against it. On a basic level, my girlfriend lives in the Lake District in the UK, and gets, err, admonished, for all the houses not having thatched roofs, and it not being exactly like Englandworld Theme Park or something. Its nothing serious, but lack of understanding like that pisses people off immensely...when it comes to issues of state, that understanding has, and will, cause thousands, if not millions, of people to die. And the US public just dont get it, because the US government and media doesnt allow themt o see what is happening.