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Peace protesters...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
...should be cluster bombed.

They don't even see the irony. They're lucky to have freedom of speech and the opportunity to protest, yet they're against the action that will give the Iraqi people this right in their own country.

Any kids skipping school to protest should be done for truancy, and teachers taking pupils out of the classroom to protest should be sacked.

They're an embarrassment to our country.

Peace loving hippies, get to f***.

:)
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I take it this is a subject you feel strongly about...!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LacyMay
    I take it this is a subject you feel strongly about...!

    Peace protesters? I detest them all :)

    :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is a fundamental principle, under English law, that every citizen within England and Wales has the freedom to demonstrate peacefully, regardless of whether their opinions or the cause might to others seem trivial or inconsequential. Thus, they should be able to fully demonstration so long as it remains peaceful. If, however, the protest results in people being threatened or hurt, property damaged or in trespass, then they have breached the peaceful nature of the demonstration and consequently criminal law is relevant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mobily's Ghost
    It is a fundamental principle, under English law, that every citizen within England and Wales has the freedom to demonstrate peacefully, regardless of whether their opinions or the cause might to others seem trivial or inconsequential. Thus, they should be able to fully demonstration so long as it remains peaceful. If, however, the protest results in people being threatened or hurt or property damaged or all, then they have breached the peaceful nature of the protest and consequently criminal law is relevant.

    The protests seemed to start off relatively peacefully, but as of late they've been causing havoc.

    Surely a sit-down protest in the middle of Princes St in Edinburgh is a public nuisance, peaceful or not?

    The police should crack down on these muppets and start arresting for breace of the peace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Peace protesters...
    Originally posted by EssEmm
    They're lucky to have freedom of speech and the opportunity to protest,

    They're an embarrassment to our country.
    I do not agree with them but I am proud that they realise they have freedom of speech. They have every right to so what they do in the same way that you have every right to condemn them.

    I am not embarrassed by them and I am happy that people have the courage of their convictions. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Peace protesters...
    Originally posted by BumbleBee

    They have every right to so what they do in the same way that you have every right to condemn them.

    What gives them the right to hold up traffic and trains, causing problems for thousands of others?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They should be allowed to express their opinion, but if they do ANYTHING that disrupts the everyday lives of other members of the public (which pretty much all protests do) they shouldn't be allowed. It's a public nuisance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by EssEmm


    The protests seemed to start off relatively peacefully, but as of late they've been causing havoc.

    Surely a sit-down protest in the middle of Princes St in Edinburgh is a public nuisance, peaceful or not?

    The police should crack down on these muppets and start arresting for breace of the peace.

    There needs to be a balance between the freedom to demonstrate and the need to keep peace.

    The police can only arrest someone if there is reasonable suspicion that a crime is about to be carried out, if it is being executed or if it has just been carried out. If they arrested the protestors without any reasonable suspicion, then they could - and rightly so - be sued for unlawful arrest.

    Understandably, the police do not wish to be heavy handed or to arrest the protestors for very inconsequential things, for they could sue the police for a breach of their human rights. This illustrates the sheer difficultly in achieving a balance enbling the people to demonstrate and the need to keep peace.

    Before you say 'the protestors are breaking the law,' it is important to remember that the police do not have sufficient resources to enforce every law. Thus the most insignificant laws are rarely - if at all - enforced, and difficult decisions as to the allocation of resources must be made. If every effort is used to enforce the law against small, controllable breaches of the peace, the limited resources might be wasted when they could, for instance, be used to investigate a much more grave crime. The police do not and will never have infinite resources, so decisions will always need to be made to effectively use them.

    By the way, you mentioned public nuisances. Legally and briefly speaking, these affect the enjoyment of land, and they cannot normally be one-off occurences, but rather regularly occurring incidents.

    As I said, there needs to be a balance between the freedom to demonstrate and the need to keep peace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the peace protesters are closed-minded, uninformed and naive. They aren't going to stop the war, all they're doing is damaging the morale of all the brave soldiers we have out in the Gulf risking their lives for our country and for this cause. The troops' morale is already low - just think what it does to them to see that people aren't even behind them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by perfect***day
    I think the peace protesters are closed-minded, uninformed and naive. They aren't going to stop the war, all they're doing is damaging the morale of all the brave soldiers we have out in the Gulf risking their lives for our country and for this cause. The troops' morale is already low - just think what it does to them to see that people aren't even behind them.

    Personally I don't think they should have joined the army if they are going to feel so terrible if people don't back them unconditionally when they go into action- and its not like the protestors want them dead, they don't want them there at all.

    And if they want to blame anyone, blame the government for sending them in while the majority of the population is opposed to the war!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by RNT
    It's a complete waste of time. It's too late to stop the war or pull out now.
    That's the problem now. We're committed to it, and for the aftermath of the war. Of course, the politicians knew this, which is why they pushed ahead for the war.

    Mr_Wobble ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Peace protesters...
    Originally posted by EssEmm
    ...should be cluster bombed.

    They don't even see the irony. They're lucky to have freedom of speech and the opportunity to protest, yet they're against the action that will give the Iraqi people this right in their own country.


    :)

    Ah no - 'tis YOU who cannot see the Irony!!

    Your argument by the way seems to be more against being held up by peace protestors than about the issues behind their protesting. If they cannot achieve anything with these protests then what should it matter to you? Instead you are actually winging like a true twit about the minor inconvenience a protest has caused you personally.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Peace protesters...
    Originally posted by byny


    Ah no - 'tis YOU who cannot see the Irony!!

    Your argument by the way seems to be more against being held up by peace protestors than about the issues behind their protesting. If they cannot achieve anything with these protests then what should it matter to you? Instead you are actually winging like a true twit about the minor inconvenience a protest has caused you personally.

    It's not just a minor inconvenience to this one person though is it? Its been a major inconvenience to thousands of peoples across the country when protestors have held up motorways and the like. As you said, they're protests can't achieve a damn thing - so surely it's understandable to be pissed off with them as effectively they're causing an inconvenience to a huge number of people for no purpose whatsoever?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, what would you all rather? That these protestors did not have freedom of speech and they could not protest? Would that not be somewhat hypocritical of you?

    I think the vast majority of them ar enot naive enough to think they can stop the war once it has begun but I am glad that for once people believe in something strongly enough to be bothered to protest about it. It makes a change.

    If this were something you felt strongly about would you not do all you could to make sure your message was put accross? I would.

    If they all just stopped the protesting then surely it would be like saying they suddenly believe in war etc? These people have every right to protest. And holding up traffic is not a criminal offence, or at least I didn't think it was? Surely any pedestrain in the road has right of way?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some people evidently do not comprehend the importance of having freedoms under English law, at least one of which would be utterly breached if the "minor inconvenience" were prohibited. However, as aforementioned, it is absolutely essential that, in order for a protestation to be lawful, it is wholly peaceful (by not breaking the criminal law) through effective, lawful policing. If it is not peaceful (by breaking the criminal law), then the demonstration should be stopped by just and lawful means.

    Clearly, therefore, there is a fine line between what is moral and acceptable and what is immoral and unacceptable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mobily's Ghost
    Some people evidently do not comprehend the importance of having freedoms under English law, at least one of which would be utterly breached if the "minor inconvenience" were prohibited. However, as aforementioned, it is absolutely essential that, in order for a protestation to be lawful, it is wholly peaceful (by not breaking the criminal law) through effective, lawful policing. If it is not peaceful (by breaking the criminal law), then the demonstration should be stopped by just and lawful means.

    Clearly, therefore, there is a fine line between what is moral and acceptable and what is immoral and unacceptable.
    Thanks for that! :)

    But on a non - legal basis, I still think that morally these people have every right to do what they are doing. Lots of people cause a nuisance to others everyday - bad drivers, old people who shop on a Saturday, the extra traffic and congestion caused around a football ground, people on horses, tractors on the road etc etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    So, what would you all rather? That these protestors did not have freedom of speech and they could not protest? Would that not be somewhat hypocritical of you?

    I think the vast majority of them ar enot naive enough to think they can stop the war once it has begun but I am glad that for once people believe in something strongly enough to be bothered to protest about it. It makes a change.

    Sure most of them may not be stupid enough to think they might be able to make a difference by protesting, but most of them are stupid enough (or more likely not bothered enough - they're not as commited to their cause as you think) to really know anything about the war, and rarely have a proper argument against it.

    Seriously, the majority of protestors no nothing about Iraq, and a fair number of them are just kids looking for a day off school. They should grow up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee

    Thanks for that! :)

    But on a non - legal basis, I still think that morally these people have every right to do what they are doing. Lots of people cause a nuisance to others everyday - bad drivers, old people who shop on a Saturday, the extra traffic and congestion caused around a football ground, people on horses, tractors on the road etc etc.

    True, but they don't cause as much disruption as many of the protests, and it's not like slowing people down on purpose either, like the protestors are doing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by EssEmm
    Surely a sit-down protest in the middle of Princes St in Edinburgh is a public nuisance, peaceful or not?
    Shukes said:
    Seriously, the majority of protestors no nothing about Iraq, and a fair number of them are just kids looking for a day off school. They should grow up.
    It is Saturday today though. I don't think there are many schools in session today, do you?!

    Whatever anybody thinks of them, at least we are allowed to say what we think time and time again without fear.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee

    Shukes said:

    It is Saturday today though. I don't think there are many schools in session today, do you?!

    Whatever anybody thinks of them, at least we are allowed to say what we think time and time again without fear.

    I'm not talking about that one specific protest today, but war protests in general have involved a lot of kids skiving school.

    Also, by holding up the motorway, you're effectively imprisoning the driver in their car - they can hardly get up and walk instead can they? Now how would you like it if you were talking down a street or something and you were stopped and made to stay in the same position for a few hours, unable to go where you wanted to go, simply because some people wanted to let everyone know they were against the war (even though we already know how many people are against the war and when the protests won't make any different) - cause effectively it's the same thing as holding up the traffic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes
    Now how would you like it if you were talking down a street or something and you were stopped and made to stay in the same position for a few hours, unable to go where you wanted to go, simply because some people wanted to let everyone know they were against the war (even though we already know how many people are against the war and when the protests won't make any different) - cause effectively it's the same thing as holding up the traffic.
    Arf!

    This did happen to me actually, in Durham last week. Protesters blocked one of the bridges off the peninsula (many of them were lying on the ground covered in tomato sauce :rolleyes: :confused: ) and lots of people were inconvenienced and were shouting abuse at them (which they have every right to do ;) ). What did I do? Well I turned around and used another bridge accross the river. Simple really. There is very rarely one route to somewhere, particularly in town centres.

    How do you defend other people who cause a nuisance day in day out, like those I mentioned? At least these war protests won't go on for ever more, soon the numbers will fall.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    How do you defend other people who cause a nuisance day in day out, like those I mentioned? At least these war protests won't go on for ever more, soon the numbers will fall.

    I don't try to defend them, but at least the annoyances they case are accident - what the hell gives protesters the right to do it on purpose? I would understand say if the anti-war argument was somehow being silenced by the government, by not allowing anti-war things on TV, newspapers, or the media in general - but thats not happening now, is it? What is the purpose of the protests? People already know the countries view on the war, there's been enough surveys, is there really any need for these people to go out to "make their view heard" - even though their view already is heard? And the protestors know this - and they know that by protesting they will NOT be making a difference, they will NOT be informing the populus, they will NOT be telling people anything they haven't already heard before, and they will NOT change anybodys opinion - and the only thing they WILL be doing is inconveniencing and generally pissing people off. How can you say there's nothing morally wrong in that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes
    what the hell gives protesters the right to do it on purpose?
    The very same thing that gives you every single right to moan about them and be dead against what they do - freedom of speech. Something every single person in this country and in every free country around the world should cherish. You do not know how lucky we all are to not be in fear of death or imprisonment for speaking our mind.

    :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Van The Man

    The very same thing that gives you every single right to moan about them and be dead against what they do - freedom of speech. Something every single person in this country and in every free country around the world should cherish. You do not know how lucky we all are to not be in fear of death or imprisonment for speaking our mind.

    :)

    The right is to freedom of SPEECH - not freedom of movement, or of public disruption. They could quite easily speak their minds without being such a public nuisence. Take the candlelit vigiles every weekend in London - they were properly organised and weren't a disruption to anyone, and most of them seemed to at least know what they were talking about. All protests should be like that and shouldn't cause hassle to anybody. It's wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes


    The right is to freedom of SPEECH - not freedom of movement, or of public disruption.

    Who gets to define what is a disruption though? You? Someone who is protesting? The vast majority? The Police? The dictionary?

    And freedom of movement also exists.

    Been to Paris lately? Pah! You do not know the meaning of the word disruption, but I do not let it get to me, oh no. That is because I am a member of Amnesty International, and I would like to reinterate my point:
    freedom of speech - Something every single person in this country and in every free country around the world should cherish. You do not know how lucky we all are to not be in fear of death or imprisonment for speaking our mind.
    I have written to many people and met many others who have been imprisoned for speaking their mind. A truely harrowing experience. I think you should take stock of all your civil liberties and not let someone expressing their feelings annoy you so much young man.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But people already KNOW their feelings, so why bother... fair enough its not exactly a big disruption, but its still completely unneccessary and pointless. It just pisses me off, haven't these people got better things to do? :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes
    But people already KNOW their feelings, so why bother... fair enough its not exactly a big disruption, but its still completely unneccessary and pointless. It just pisses me off, haven't these people got better things to do? :p
    Fair point. And I agree. But aren't you glad that you live in a country where they are free to do that, and where you would be free to do that should you please? Come on now, admit that you are! Surely you must be? Surely you all must be???

    And one could argue that you don't have anything better to do than moan about these people!! :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Van The Man

    Fair point. And I agree. But aren't you glad that you live in a country where they are free to do that, and where you would be free to do that should you please? Come on now, admit that you are! Surely you must be? Surely you all must be???


    Well yes, but I wouldn't do it in such a stupid pointless annoying way, especialy not over a subject that I knew wouldn't be effected by my protests.
    And one could argue that you don't have anything better to do than moan about these people!! :p

    Ah, touche. :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes
    Ah, touche. :p [/B]

    :p A fine sparring partner you have been! :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Van The Man

    And one could argue that you don't have anything better to do than moan about these people!! :p

    One could argue that, yes, but it wouldn't be very constructive. :p

    Personally I have not been bothered by anti-war protestors. I think that they have the right to protest and that is good, but protests really should be done in a way which does not do continuous harm to other people's lives. So far I would say it's not been unreasonable amounts of protest.
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