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Cash for support: If votes can be bought what are UN resolutions worth?

SystemSystem Posts: 8,649 Staff Team
As Turkey is negotiating a new/improved aid package from the US worth up to $32bn for co-operation and support for a war on Iraq, newspapers have reported other countries that will be making a killing- no pun intended- out of giving their vote and/or support for a US-led war and any forthcoming resolutions authorising force.

And it turns out that a whole bunch of nations, including China and Russia, could be persuaded to support the US... for the right price. Info here

Why is this allowed to happen? Doesn't voting in the UN adhere to the same rules and codes of practice as an election or referendum in any sovereign nation? And can we really go to war over resolutions such as 1441 and the new one being tabled now, when it is clear that a corrupt government has bought the votes of other corrupt governments to alter the outcome? The countries involved are no better than the little dictatorships and banana republic nations we in the West like to look down on.

So there you have it: international carrot and stick. Mucho dinero if you give me your support, economic boycotts if you don't. Moral case for war my arse!
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Further to that: if Iraq could be bought off; how much would be *worth it*?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With few exceptions, the allies of the US have ZERO integrity. Even if the US pays for most of their defense, as is the case with NATO, is responsible for their still being free nations, as is the case with every free nation of the world, doesn't matter. For the most part nations have zero integrity and so must be bought.

    What does France offer? Why would any country put itself in a place where France can tell it to shut up?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    With few exceptions, the allies of the US have ZERO integrity.

    And what integrity do you think the country that bribes them all has? :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe we see them for the low life's that they are?

    One thing you have to admit, Bush said exactly what he was going to do back in 2001. Right after Sept. 11, he said he was going to bring people to justice or bring justice to people. And he named Iraq, Iran and North Korea as being states that were sponsoring terrorism. Once again, someone underestimated America's resolve to defend itself. Most Americans feel we are under attack with no one helping to defend us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes pnj we are under attack from Washington more than any outside hyped up boogeymen. Id start looking closer to home for those undermining your peace and security rather than carrying on with comments on countries and institutions of which you have no firsthand knowledge whatsoever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actions speak louder than words Clandestine. While the US and UK were trying to contain Saddam and make him adhere to UN resolutions, the French were not helping contain him, AND, were making oil deals. The US pays for most of NATO and when it comes time to have Turkey defended, NATO doesn't want to step up to its obligations as an alliance.

    If it were up to me, I'd have the US pull out of NATO and put those troops into transitioning Iraq into a Muslim democracy...an alternative to extremism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given that you can merely regurgitate the spin fed to you by mainstream medai, I can only tell you that youve got a long long way to go before you comprehend the machinations of the international political scene sufficiently to offer any policy alternatives.

    You do parrot the evening news quite well though, ill grant you that much.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm a good parrot? So where's my cracker? :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is that something to be proud of?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He's just being goofy. My dad's a liberal. Went to a Grammy Awards party last night my dad's friend was giving...it had all French food to eat...cheeses, bread, some duck liver crap-looking stuff. I'm surrounded by liberals.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You seem to avoid the subject at hand pnj. Which is, are UN resolutions worth anything when a country can buy votes and bribe other nations to alter the outcome?

    As corrupt is the government that offers the bribe as the one that accepts it...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is an excellent topic Aladdin.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I often hear how pathetic Europe's military is compared to America's. I would like to point out that in 1933 Poland was pushing Germany around.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Heydrich
    I often hear how pathetic Europe's military is compared to America's. I would like to point out that in 1933 Poland was pushing Germany around.

    Yeah, but Germany was remilitarising at a rapid rate, Europe isn't. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    And what integrity do you think the country that bribes them all has? :lol:

    A damn sight more than those who can be bought.

    But what you point out only goes to underline what I have always said about the UN...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent


    A damn sight more than those who can be bought.
    And how do you work that one out?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Cash for support: If votes can be bought what are UN resolutions worth?
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Doesn't voting in the UN adhere to the same rules and codes of practice as an election or referendum in any sovereign nation?

    Aladdin,

    Might visit a few of those sovereign nations and see how their elections run...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Heydrich
    I often hear how pathetic Europe's military is compared to America's. I would like to point out that in 1933 Poland was pushing Germany around.

    Source?

    A real historic source, thank you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    And how do you work that one out?

    Would you sell your opinion? Cos I'm damned if I would, talk about selling your soul.

    But what about trying to influence someone else to support your position, in order to achieve the aims that your opinion showed you as being necessary? Is a march any different really, or the threat not to vote for a politician if he doesn't back your stance, surely this is just bribary by another means?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Presumably if I'm a drug dealer and I bribe a few cops to turn a blind eye there is nothing wrong in the bribing... I'm just trying to get support from the old bill for my right to make a living providing others with mind-expanding substances...

    There is a world of difference between bribing and marching or voting MoK. There might be mitigating circumstances on occasion but let examine this particular case:

    Other than the Bush and Blair administrations and a few minions elsewhere, the majority of governments in the world are opposed to using force on principle (not to mention the public everywhere). The US is achieving support for its resolutions by the double approach of showering countries with money and making it clear that they might as well take it, for it is the US intention to go ahead with it and those who stand in the way will be punished. As pnj reminds us regularly, Bush's defining moment was his "you're with us or against us" rant. That doesn't smell of honesty, but of corruption, bullying and fraud.

    Furthermore, regardless of the benefits that getting rid of Saddam will bring, I trust you don't believe for a second the US is acting out of responsibility and to alleviate people of their suffering. They're doing it for their own interests and reasons and that makes the bribing even the more reprehensible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Speaking of the value of UN Resolutions:

    Disarm? NO!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nah Aladdin not the governments. The government officials support the war because they see the terrorist threats and are afraid to just sit back and wait for Al Qaeda to strike. So if the US is going to risk the lives of its soldiers to get rid of a man, few in the world like, of course they support it.

    I wonder...will the US get so fed up with France that it just creates a new world trade alliance where all the countries that France told to "shut up" can join instead of the French-poised EU?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    The government officials support the war because they see the terrorist threats and are afraid to just sit back and wait for Al Qaeda to strike.

    So you attack iraq?

    You still don't see the flaw in the logic do you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A Muslim extremist leaves Afghanistan, goes for medical treatment to Baghdad, goes to an Al Qaeda group in Northern Iraq that killed someone over last summer with ricin, gets picked up with ricin in the UK....and YOU don't see the connection?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, and neither can the US government conclusively demonstrate a link to the Iraqi regime either pnj. get your facts out of the realm of speculation.

    Northern Iraq is under US, UK and Kurdish control, not Baghdad's.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Northern Iraq is controlled by the Kurds.......:rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right and he was in the Al Qaeda group operating there after leaving Baghdad. Also, Saddam's secret police still operate there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg
    Northern Iraq is controlled by the Kurds.......:rolleyes:

    Actually, parts of Northern Iraq are controlled by the Kurds. Other parts are controlled by dissidents linked to Iran. Other areas either uncontrolled or controlled by elements that don't fall into those two categories.

    By the way, anyone bother to read the link a few posts up? Seems Saddam has accelerated the process nicely.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK

    Yes, it would appear Saddam is falling into the pit and sealing his own doom.

    Doesn't mean there shouldn't be more time to apply pressure on him though,,,,,,,
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg
    OK

    Yes, it would appear Saddam is falling into the pit and sealing his own doom.

    Doesn't mean there shouldn't be more time to apply pressure on him though,,,,,,,


    12 years wasn't enough?
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