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An Israeli approach to war on terror.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
*Reminder I've only been world-aware beginning in 2000*
What I've observed from reading articles posted on Yahoo US, UK and Ireland, Canada and Australia is an Israeli approach to fighting terror that is as brutal as war but does seems to work. It involves infiltration of Palestinian groups, aggressively destroying dual use factories, assinating terrorist leaders. (Today, there's an article about 11 Palestinians being killed in a metal works factory used to make bombs as well as legitimate items for use in comerce.)
No matter how brutal it can be argued that this aggressive technique is, it also does bring peace to Isreal itself. The suicide bombings go down when Isreal's troops are in the West Bank.
The US has had people, cops and more, training in Isreal to learn their techniques. I personally see Iraq as being part of this approach to terrorism against the US...go there, disrupt things, and hurt Al Qaeda. Even if it's only that Hamas will not be getting money to fund suicide bombings from Saddam. And if there's peace in that area, a disarmed Palestinian state can come into being in 2005.
So the question isn't morality or protecting civilians worldwide. The question is. If people are out to destroy your people, does this kind of aggressive approach work?
By the way, Syria is pulling all of its 3,000+ troops out of Lebanon. Is there about to be a direct war with Hezbollah?
What I've observed from reading articles posted on Yahoo US, UK and Ireland, Canada and Australia is an Israeli approach to fighting terror that is as brutal as war but does seems to work. It involves infiltration of Palestinian groups, aggressively destroying dual use factories, assinating terrorist leaders. (Today, there's an article about 11 Palestinians being killed in a metal works factory used to make bombs as well as legitimate items for use in comerce.)
No matter how brutal it can be argued that this aggressive technique is, it also does bring peace to Isreal itself. The suicide bombings go down when Isreal's troops are in the West Bank.
The US has had people, cops and more, training in Isreal to learn their techniques. I personally see Iraq as being part of this approach to terrorism against the US...go there, disrupt things, and hurt Al Qaeda. Even if it's only that Hamas will not be getting money to fund suicide bombings from Saddam. And if there's peace in that area, a disarmed Palestinian state can come into being in 2005.
So the question isn't morality or protecting civilians worldwide. The question is. If people are out to destroy your people, does this kind of aggressive approach work?
By the way, Syria is pulling all of its 3,000+ troops out of Lebanon. Is there about to be a direct war with Hezbollah?
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What Israel is doing is collective punishment. Whole towns are cities in Palestine are being punished every time there is an attack on Israeli forces. And whereas sometimes there might find and destroy a weapons factory a lot of the time they just get in there and demolish a few houses to make a point. Other times they just don't bother with that and simply fire missiles into crowds or artillery shells into apartment blocks. The less reported, every day occurrences include the ripping of vines from the ground, regular cutting off of water and electricity supplies, restriction of movement for workers or even medical staff, cars being flattened by tanks "for a laugh"… It's no surprise that kids are queuing up to become the next 'martyr'.
The bottom line is that no matter how hard the Israelis try, short of killing them all there is nothing they can do to stop the suicide bombings. Well, there is something they could do: pull back from the occupied territories, dismantle the illegal settlements and sit and negotiate a permanent end of hostilities and the creation of a Palestinian State.
That was before my world aware time Aladdin. It is brutal. But don't you think while the tanks are rolling in Palestine, suicide bombings go down? It seems there's more suicide bombings when Israel has no troops in Palestine.
Ouch. Great jab. She will probably spend mucho denaro on counseling.
Agree (why, this is becoming a daily occurrence)
Its made him concentrate only on America and what America wants instead of giving him a wider view of world society!!
Bantustans and Segregation are EVIL in South Africa, America, and Great Britain. Bantustans, torture of minorities, stripping minorities of civil liberties, and collective punishment are OKAY in Israel. In fact, these things are so OKAY they should be funded by TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars.
All I can say is, that I was in Israel last year, at it's worst period concidering bombings and attacks. You'd hear about at least one incident a day, if not more (and some people I know dealing with this on a close and daily basis, told me that what the news covered was only a tip of the ice-berg, that a lot of minor and failed attempts of atacks were never mentioned anywhere, except from behind close doors). And the thing which calmed it down was "Operation Defence Wall". That's fact.
Oh purlease. The benevolent Afrikaans eh?
Although, it is amazing how expensive a shanty town is to run.
What with all the massacres you have to carry out too - I mean all those bullets, all that tear gas. And do you know how many rand it cost to hire a bulldozer for the day.
Of course, one reason why Israel didn't fight in WW1 & WW2 may have been that the country didn't EXIST.
In fact, if you think about it many of those who went to Israel to help found the nation were desperately trying to flee the persecution of people like Heydrich...
And I think you'll find that Israel has effectively been fighting for it's existence ever since.
Is South Africa democratic now? Does the majority of the population now have the vote? Are Blacks free to apply for any jobs now, and not just those allowed by the White minority?
I'd say that democratically it's in a much better position now.
But, I also happen to agree with you about Israel and apartheid and it is something that I have said on here before.
That's when all the discussions regarding rights, or democracies higher values end. I also don't think you can reason with a fanatic.
Absolutely.
Yes, unlike Israel the Afrikaners spent billions on their shanty towns.
LOL yes, sure it is okay to bulldoze down the homes of the relatives of the "homicide bombers," a form of collective punishment outlawed under the Geneva accords if you happen to be Jews. Tear gas and bullets work fine for Palestinian children in the West Bank Bantustan. What precisely is your problem?
Well that figures. It was after all the Zionists in Palestine who cut a deal with Hitler and the Nazis to liquidate the wealth of the Jews in Germany to transfer it to Palestine in the first place. There would be no Israel today if it was not for Adolf Hitler for it was Hitler that cut a deal with the Zionists to get around the immigraton restrictions set up by the British with regards to Palestine. The British and American so loved the Jews they threw up massive immigration restrictions. Hitler himself said on many occassions he would have been more than willing to send every Jew who wanted to go to America and Britain, with a bank account, provided Britain and America accept them! The liquidated wealth of the German Jews was used to purchase exports from the Third Reich and to crush the boycott of their fellow Jews in abroad. I will also add that the Soviet Union was the first nation to recognize the State of Israel, and that makes sense, for Israel won its independence by terrorizing the British and with weapons acquired from the Soviet Block through Czechoslovakia. What war again has Israel for with the United States in? Afghanistan? The Gulf War? Korea? Vietnam maybe? Valuable ally indeed.
Yes, of course. Israel has been under attack by terrorists. Oh wait, then again so was South Africa. I bet the Afrikaners feel pretty STUPID fighting for the British and Americans in World War 2 these days. What idiots, they should have known better. After all, it was the British who killed thousands of their women in children in concentration camps in the Boer war. That's okay. Great Britainstan is suffering from South Africa's curse these days. The South Africa of 2003 will be the Britainstan of 2050.
South Africa is ran by the Marxist Thabo Mbeki, a good friend of Quadaffi and Fidel Casto, who was trained in the Soviet Union. In the new and improved "democratic" South Africa a once prosperous nation thanks to their eternal allies in Great Britain and America is now the rape, murder, and AIDS capital of planet earth. In the new lovely South Africa, Afrikaners are the most at risk ethnic group in the entire world to be murdered. A two state solution was of course UNACCEPTABLE for South Africa. A two state solution is the ONLY solution however for Israel, god forbid they let those Palestinians back to their homes huh?
Yes. South Africa has now been effectively "integrated." Massive economic sanctions were of course necessary to accomplish that. America does not put sanctions on Israel however, it gives them tens of billions of dollars in foreign aid. Speaking of the majority of the population in Israel its very easy to have a majority when you terrorize, marginalize, or drive out all those who disagree with you and strip them of their civil rights.
Yes, Affirmative Action is massive and widespread in the new South Africa. Jews of course were an enormous minority in Palestine for centuries until they immimgrated there and liquidated the Palestinians who now live in refugee camps and bantustans.
Yes, living as a permanent electoral minority has just been great for the Afrikaners. Unfortunately they cannot simply expel blacks at will from Congress or lock them up in a West Bank anymore.
What is your problem with Israel's policies? After all, God who chose the Jews to be the master race told them to exterminate the Canaanites in the name of the creator of the universe!
However, I think that this could be a case of winning the battle, but losing the war. If the end desired is peace. For God's sake, since 1967 the Palestinians have shown no wavering in their convictions, what makes you think that the next ten years could show a different result than the previous thirty? Add the fact that the Palestinians have a high population growth rate and the efficacy of violence to solve the problem, rather than just manage it, seems questionable.
Are you deliberately spouting rascist gibberish to provoke a reaction or do you have reasons for believeing such things?
Also, Jacq do you think the Israeli govt should remove the settlements from the Palestinian areas?
Yes, the South Africans were afraid that by democratically integrating their society with the black population their fecundity would make them a permanent minority and they would lose their culture in an impoverished nation. They were also fearful in light of the cooperation of the ANC with international communism and its tendancy to terrorize the Afrikaners that they would be slaughtered if they capitulated. Every single one of those predictions has now come to pass. Now I suppose its Israel's turn to learn "diversity is our strength." Whats good for the Afrikaners is good for Israel IMO.
With that history, maybe one, two, generations ago, do you not understand why the Israelis feel maybe a little threatened?
The bantustans of S. Africa were "allowed" to become independent in order to create isolated enclaves of blacks that would have political independence. Why? It removed them from the white economy - the whites didn't want to pay for them any more. They were forbidden from creating the bantustan states because it would have effectively weakened and cut off the black population from resources.
Furthermore, the apartheid movement was given a charismatic leader in the form of Mandela, who cannot really be compared to Arafat, can he?
Was not attempting to excuse the Israelis actions, merely to perhaps show another side of the argument. Everyone seems to cite Israel as a reason we should not invade Iraq, when really, they do not have quite comparable circumstance.
Why not? After all, Apartheid is OKAY in Israel and EVIL in South Africa. Where is the outrage now? Oh wait, I forgot, the Jews are superior and were "chosen" above the goyim right? Israel is a country born in ethnic cleansing. Do not cry to me about the Holocaust either. The Jews in Israel cut a DEAL with Hitler and profitted enormously off of it.
Yes of course. God told the Jews to slaughter the Canaanites. The Canaanites might possibly put up resistance.
Yes, that is true. The Israelis seem to have a problem with even creating the Palestinians a Bantustan to live on! Why not kick all the Palestinians out to Jordan, let that be their homeland right? The South Africans however were more than willing to grant independence to their Bantustans and unlike Israel the South Africans spent billions of rands on them.
The Afrikaners thought an integrated South Africa would be committing national suicide, and that has since turned out to be precisely the honest truth. The Afrikaners thought a "two state" solution would be much better. Why is this OKAY for Israel and so EVIL for South Africa it requires a world embargo?
Have your historical facts a little skewed don't you DJP? Mandela was no leader of Apartheid, he was in opposition to it, unless you think the ANC fought for the whites.
Clandestine; yep, you're right. Missed off the "anti-" from my point, there.