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Iraq and a hard place

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The Bremner, Bird and Fortune special can be downloaded and watched with RealPlayer here and it is highly recommended. The report itself should convince you, but so far, my gems are:

If you spent $26m per day since the birth of Christ, you would still have spent less than the US has on defence since 1945. The US, of course, spelling defence differently, and defining it pretty differently too.

Saddam Hussein and Al-Quaeda are like Ulrika Jonsson and Nancy Dell'Olio. They have nothing in common, hate the sight of each other, but just like f***ing the same bloke.

:lol:

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And...

    What does the US want to see in Iraq? A democratic regime, from the people who brought you a new bi party system, where the man with the most votes loses. A legislature which refuses to acknowledge or sign many international laws, a justice system that brought you Guantanamo Bay and a financial and economic stability that brought you Enron.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If George Bush wants to bring down Iraq, he should withdraw the military, and send in crack teams of US accountants.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Better yet, resign as President and go govern Iraq. After all, "its the economy, stupid!" :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What does the US want to see in Iraq? A democratic regime, from the people who brought you a new bi party system, where the man with the most votes loses.

    LOL the U.S. wants a democratic regime! Is there a democratic regime in Panama, Kuwait, Bosnia, or Afghanistan these days?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Heydrich


    LOL the U.S. wants a democratic regime! Is there a democratic regime in Panama, Kuwait, Bosnia, or Afghanistan these days?

    Is there one in Germany, Japan, or the Philippines?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is there one in Germany, Japan, or the Philippines?

    Germany is just rejoining us in the modern world. Having been erradicated as a sovereign nation and dismembered by the Morgenthau Plan for the second time in 30 years to satisfy Western businesses competing with German industry the good ol' Krauts are just beginning to stretch their legs. Japan has always imitated the United States, something which has been true since the 1850s when American Imperialism and guns opened up Japan to commerce. America also literally wrote Japan's Constitution, and the same is very much true for the Germans. Popular Sovereignty? LOL another one of those irrelevent concepts! The Weimer Republic was a democracy and Germany had flirted with a parliment prior to the Great War. The Phillippines is an unusual case, after annexing the Phillippines from Spain in the Spanish American War the United States went on to kill hundreds of thousands of Filipinos and occupy the nation for literally half a century, and unlike Poland, it was on the other side of the world, where no Americans lived! All the above nations play the proud little role of American satellites, quite humiliating I might add for two former great nations and world powers. Every one of these cases are different as well, with different circumstances in the context of different times.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You didn't answer his question though, did you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are these nations sovereign? Not really, American troops are in all of them. Do they conduct an independent foreign policy? Germany just made its third leap into the darkness, to the chargin to its master.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DJ - it didn't bother you to see no signs against Saddam at the peace rally/march? No questions about the French oil deals? Or Russians? Didn't occur to you that these are socialists whose hatred of the US is greater than any morality regarding Saddam?


    Kyoto was weighted to benefit certain countries. It's base year was selected to coincide with the year Germany reunited...which gave them an edge, China was given an edge. International law has to benefit us - not hurt our economy. And our air is cleaner than Europe's...especially Paris for instance. I don't want to go into some of the sewage treatment issues in the UK because I'm not here to knock the UK...but the US is stricter.

    We monitor ourselves. The Democrats are more into the environment than Bush. He's not big on it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So tell me pnj, oil deals are only upstanding in your eyes if they're "our" oil deals? You seem so hung up that anyone but the US should be profiting from Mid East oil. Truly your incessant refusal to even try to look past the current spin amazes me.

    Then again given the world status of our educational system, perhaps im not so surprised.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No Clandestine. But I don't like dishonesty. So I'm questioning why the current oil deals France aren't a source of criticism in the peace movement too. France will get their oil deal. A French air craft carrier is headed to Iraq now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Before pointing out the dishonesty of others, if you are indeed so concerned, then start at home my friend. We have no moral ground to be accusing any other nation till we clean house ourselves.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Heydrich
    American troops are in all of them.

    Your grasp of world affairs is a little tenuous, isn't it? No American troops in the Philippines, Heydrich.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your grasp of world affairs is a little tenuous, isn't it? No American troops in the Philippines, Heydrich.

    Actually you are wrong. America has troops in the Phillippines right now assisting the Phillippine government with its secessionist movement in the South.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Heydrich


    Actually you are wrong.

    Guess you should pay attention. American SOCOM assets left a few weeks ago.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet


    Kyoto was weighted to benefit certain countries. It's base year was selected to coincide with the year Germany reunited...which gave them an edge, China was given an edge. International law has to benefit us - not hurt our economy. And our air is cleaner than Europe's...especially Paris for instance. I don't want to go into some of the sewage treatment issues in the UK because I'm not here to knock the UK...but the US is stricter.

    We monitor ourselves. The Democrats are more into the environment than Bush. He's not big on it.

    Of course it will benfit some countries, the ones that cause less pollution!

    The law will benefit you, but it may hurt your economy the two are not the same but in the LR the consequences of polluting at the current level will destroy your economy. The key to running a good economy is not to look at this years growth figures but to look at future projections and the likely effect of policy........

    The US is by far the worlds largest polluter and you know that, so don't focus on sewage treatment and air quality (which surely can't be generalised across the whole US) and look at the aggregate figures, you make the most pollution. Deal with it.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kyoto would allow China to increase the level at which they pollute (go to Shanghai and tell me that is a good idea) in pollutants that are much more dangerous than anything being put out by US industry. Kyoto would require New Zealand to bag the methane output of farm animals.

    And you are telling me this is a well thought out treaty?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK maybe it is not perfect and maybe it can be improved but you will never make a treaty that satisfies everyone.

    Surely the treaty would still lead to an improvement overall, so why not do it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you just enjoy the idea of Kiwis running around with plastic bags trying to cover the rear ends of cows and sheep in order to comply with Kyoto... :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    I think you just enjoy the idea of Kiwis running around with plastic bags trying to cover the rear ends of cows and sheep in order to comply with Kyoto... :)

    Just don't tell Dom ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    I think you just enjoy the idea of Kiwis running around with plastic bags trying to cover the rear ends of cows and sheep in order to comply with Kyoto... :)

    :lol:

    See, who wouldn't want that?
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