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in your face liberal wusses

News today;
One of Saddam's most trusted bodyguards Hamdi Mahmoud has defected to the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad. With him, he has taken plans and locations of key facilities that Saddam had denied existed. These are:
A chemical weapons factory underneath the centre of Bagdhad
A scud missile assembly area near Ramadi
2 underground bunkers on the outskirts of Bagdhad with stockpiles of biological weapons of an undisclosed type
5 chemical missile bunkers hidden beneath sand dunes in the desert.

And before you say "but we have all those things anyway" don't. We don't threaten to kill people with them, and the UK government doesn't have bio or chemical weaponry anyway.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Then let the UN inspectors verify and we go from there.

    Although it once again seems like an all too convenient set up to me however much people might want war. Where were these defectors and why didnt they defect months ago when the tied was with Bush and co to a greater extent than it has been shown of late. Seems every time the public opinion levels drop to alarming levels we either have another shocking event happen somewhere (though more to do with the WoT than Iraq, but the media has cleverly muddled those two concepts), or else some amazing discovery about Iraq.

    If these men truly defected with such smoking guns in hand then it strikes me as odd that they waited till now to do so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was gonna add that bit, but I was quite happy with the almost proving everyone wrong bit I decided to stop there :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    source?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sunday Express
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How interesting that every google search for Hamdi Mahmoud or Latest Iraq Defection, etc.. turns up nothing. nor does Hamdi Mahmoud show up on the BBC news site search.

    Seems to me if this were as monumental as you seem to believe then it would be reported by all the major media.

    Just another name pulled out of a hat from our archives of known past associates of Saddam no doubt.

    Also, reflecting on what you first posted, I doubt any Iraqi official would ever defect to Israel under any circumstances. That sounds as suspect as the day is long.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well the UN might not get chance of verifying this information Clandestine. This might be seized upon by the US as the smoking gun they were so desperately looking for to start their war without further delay. Of course, once the deed is done there won't be much to check out for veracity, nor will it matter if the information wasn't good as the objective will have been accomplished.

    The fact that he's defected to Mossad, master of every trick and action under the sun however illegal or wrong to look after Israel's interests, is also a little worrying.

    Why do I get the feeling that you really want this war to happen Whowhere? You don't know any more than the rest of us (unless you have access to those ultra top-secret files the US doesn't want to show anyone) and yet have been vigorously voicing your support for war from the beginning, before any indication or proof whatsoever that Saddam might still possess WMDs.

    Most of those people you call 'liberal wusses' are simply asking we don't launch yet another war of destruction against a sovereign nation without definitive proof that its leader has illegal WMDs and is a danger to us, and after obtaining subsequent approval from the UN. Is that too much to ask? Or is it that you just want a war to happen to see all that fabulous military hardware in action?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was meant in good fun Aladdin, of course I don't think you're all liberal wusses, I do agree with you on some things, i just think that it'll be difficult finding the proof, albeit I believe it is there.
    I to did a search and couldn't find anything on this guy as it happens, but the Express is quite a good paper in most respects so I don't think they'd make it up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere, I think if you look through the backgrounds of what are considered respected newspapers today youll find plenty of cases where they invented or embellished stories just to sell papers.

    The lies that fueled the Vietnam war were carried by most major US (and indeed foreign) media regardless of the lack of veracity. In the end they exist to sell their stories and the more sensational the headline, the better the sales.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    will someone please list for me the terrorist activities around the world that saddam has been involved in and the groups concerned? when and where were the attacks? what was attacked? thankyou.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL. I trust youre joking MR. Saddam is a state despot not a terrorist. Unless of course you blur and confuse all definitions of what a terrorist actually is and seeks to achieve and for what ideological reasons.

    But i guess since Bush can do that to suit whatever he wants to do against whomever he wishes, feel free to follow suit. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    LOL. I trust youre joking MR
    no i wasn't joking.
    i am pissed off with hearing all day long about him being connected to terrorism. my wife and her friends BELIEVE the guy is a terrorist. when i ask them about it they can say no more than it was on the telly. how many people are walking around believing this crap? when did this guy ever...ever threaten western interests? never. he wants fame and riches and glory. he wants to build and build. he wants to sell oil and invest, squander, spend, stash, waste the money.
    sound familiar?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    okay perhaps joking wasnt quite the right term, but your answer confirmed my presumption of what you were driving at.

    All I can say is that you need to tell your wife to look at other sources of info that arent so compliant to the state's agenda. I too am sick of the lies and revisionism that our governments (whom our societies seem to believe of defenders of all the good and just) are concocting to blind the public to true historical facts, distinctions between terrorism and despotism/dictatorship, the level of threat that West is actually facing (considerably less than is being portrayed for very transparent political reasons), and from where the threats we actually do face are originating (one need only look as far as our respective capitols and those we put in office in the first place).


    In the case of the last point though, Id have to preface that by saying "at least those you put in office in the UK" since Bush effectively rigged and stole the US election.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    since Bush effectively rigged and stole the US election.

    It only happened/worked because it was such a close run thing.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It worked by disqualifying ex-pat/overseas votes for florida cutting out a large number of ballots and further miscounts throughout the state and not only in democratic districts. Good ol bro jeb was there to pull it off nicely. and the state supreme court quite happy to give it to older bro.

    But whats done is done and we can only pray that he cocks things up so badly that he is ousted quick like daddy was.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Carriage Return


    It only happened/worked because it was such a close run thing.
    utter rubbish! sections of the black community didn't get a vote to ensure it would be close. then the decision was taken by the bush circuit as to who won and surprise surprise they picked thier own. the whole thing was a fucking big scam. the right wing saw that they were the only super power and decided to make thier move. very clever. very frightening. why do some of you refuse to believe all the evidence? but are then willing to go along with a total lack of evidence about iraq?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    will someone please list for me the terrorist activities around the world that saddam has been involved in and the groups concerned?

    Would you like to start with Hamas? For whom he pays a dividend to the family of deceased Suicide Bombers...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Paying the families of "deceased" bombers is rather "after the fact" , MoK. Hardly sponsoring active terrorist campaigns or leading or planning them himself.

    Remember, to many in the Islamic world, those suicider bombers are resistance fighters not terrorists. Easy for us to sit comfotably in the West and proscribe who is or isnt a terrorist by whatever convenient twist of rhetorical definition happens to be the flavour of the day. Such fluid definitions always have a way of pointing a finger back at our own nations who funded groups which by the same definitions could be renamed terrorists (i.e. Contras, Shining Path, Mujahadeen, etc...)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Presumably anybody who has financed individuals or governments who commit terrorist acts is by association a terrorist then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are right Whowhere. Saddam has also hired people to go on the Internet and discredit the Allies. Also, the information he gave is in keeping with the satellite photos shown on American t.v. last night.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mind providing proof for that claim pnj? Sounds like a convenient dodge to me.

    Notwithstanding, one could argue that its only fair since it was reported last week that for quite some time now the Bush administration has had computer hackers at work conducting cyber attacks on Iraq's computer networks, and war hasnt even been sanctioned yet either by our Congress or by the international community.

    So ask yourself, who is acting as the rogue nation in the eyes of the world? We're soon to be ranked up there with the best of them if Bush keeps this up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    It worked by disqualifying ex-pat/overseas votes for florida cutting out a large number of ballots and further miscounts throughout the state and not only in democratic districts.

    Yadda, yadda, yadda... :lol:

    Of course, you conveniently neglect to speak of the 55,000 overseas military ballots that you wanker Demo's refused to count because they had no post mark, when the reality is, any overseas military personel can write on a cereal box top, and it will be sent to the addressee... SANS POSTAGE, SANS POSTMARK.

    Reality is a bit inconvenient to your propaganda, isn't it? :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Paying the families of "deceased" bombers is rather "after the fact" , MoK. Hardly sponsoring active terrorist campaigns or leading or planning them himself.

    Dangling the carrot in front of a jackass in NO way encourages a response, now does it? :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dunno Globe, you tell me. Our Government did it to you and you bit willingly enough! :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine, you know he's being immortalized. They put the bomber's picture up and he's supposed to be with Virgins in heaven. Plus, he knows his family will get a new house with the money from Saddam. And then Isreal will knock the house down.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They can immortalise or add whatever religious spin they like, that isnt pertinent to the central issues at work in the conflict bewteen the two sides.

    Israel kills thousands in tank, rocket, and infantry attacks and the Plaestianinas fight back with whatever they can cobble together. So long as Israel, which is the primary catylist for escalation in the conflict, refuse to honour its UN obligations (which all the war lovers here seem to dismiss whilst insisting Iraq honour its obligations) and continues to turn the Palestinian territories into new versions of the Warsaw ghetto (or dar it be said, new versions of the death camps) then how can anyone expect the Palestinians (who are essentially be dehumanised) not to fight back?

    You would if it were your home, or neighborhood, or town being attacked almost daily. I can be fairly sure our vociferous resident militants would also fight back as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    utter rubbish! sections of the black community didn't get a vote to ensure it would be close. then the decision was taken by the bush circuit as to who won and surprise surprise they picked thier own. the whole thing was a fucking big scam. the right wing saw that they were the only super power and decided to make thier move. very clever.
    No, the Americans don't get out of it so easily. Many americans voted for bushMany didn't bother to vote.

    Unless you atre claiming that bush pulled this stunts in all the other states?

    Yes, he stole the election but he couldn't have done if it wasn't already a close run thing.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Carriage Return


    Yes, he stole the election but he couldn't have done if it wasn't already a close run thing.

    I think you will find he did not steal the election. He won within the constraints of the US Constitution.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat


    I think you will find he did not steal the election. He won within the constraints of the US Constitution.

    Our Constitution doesn't mean much around here. Except that it was probably a right wing Bush plot also. This has been in the works since 1776.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    I dunno Globe, you tell me. Our Government did it to you and you bit willingly enough! :lol:

    No carrot was dangled in front of our eyes... No 72 virgins, no rewards to our families... just acceptance of responsibilities, and duty, something that you likely are unacquainted with. Ever work a job, other than being on the bureaucratic dole?

    Just to make it perfectly clear... I have more respect for the terrorist bombers than I have for the likes of you. At least they put their lives behind their mouths...

    You are going to need to put some real effort into making the stretch of comparing the terrorist bombers who target non-combatants to soldiers and Marines who served in Vietnam. As much as you would like to believe so, we did not turn ourselves into bi-ped Claymores. Targeting civilians? Was the province of another of your heroes... uncle Ho.

    But then, accuracy is simply an inconvenience to you, isn't it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As is truthfulness to the Military and military industrial complex dear boy. Not even your brainwashing can change the well known and oft repeated systamtic falsification of events when recounted by the armed services.

    The facts about Vietnam and the lies are all a matter of record, but you keep right on believing it was about duty and honour and our protection if it helps you sleep at night. :lol:
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