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The Finsbury Park mosque raid.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
150 police swooped on Finsbury Park mosque at 2am.
Radical Islamic cleric Abu Hamza wasn't there, but I've even read his hate-filled rantings before from this mosque. And he has connections with Al Qaeda and the police say they were careful regarding the prayer areas. 7 people were arrested.
Here's the debate on this to me. Of course the West can win the War on Terror. But beyond lives, one of the greatest costs we have to live with are the freedoms we've destroyed in the quest to win. Are we doing as good a job in protecting civil rights as we are in getting the bad guys?
Radical Islamic cleric Abu Hamza wasn't there, but I've even read his hate-filled rantings before from this mosque. And he has connections with Al Qaeda and the police say they were careful regarding the prayer areas. 7 people were arrested.
Here's the debate on this to me. Of course the West can win the War on Terror. But beyond lives, one of the greatest costs we have to live with are the freedoms we've destroyed in the quest to win. Are we doing as good a job in protecting civil rights as we are in getting the bad guys?
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Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom OR security.
Yes, combating terrorism is of great consequence nonetheless sacrificing basic civil liberties is not warranted. That crap about ID cards was whooly foolhardy. It's no one else's business who I am and I see no reason to carry a piece of plastic around because some terrorist might attack your country.
Comparing it to the japanese is unfair and not accurate. ALL japanese americans were detained and herded into camps...Nobody has even suggested holding all muslims, or even all iraqis/afghans/saudis, prisoner in this situation.
The police believed a crime was being committed inside that mosque, they raided it as they would any other building, and it was closed while they were investigating.
Clearners blahaaaaaaaaaaa funny.
If our liberal societies are superior to that which so many have gotten on the bandwagon to rant about then upholding those freedoms and rights in the face of those who threaten them should be our first priority.
Sadly, those who are threatening and riding roughshod all over our rights and freedoms, are our own power-hungry leaders (who are supposedly sworn to uphold those freedoms and rights).
and if you've got relatives like mine...
Hear hear.
Terrorists have won if you give up basic freedoms.
The only reason this is an issue is because of the whole terrorist issue at the moment but nothing has changed, no civil liberties have been given up to allow the police to do this.
really I disagree, the terrorists win when YOU give in to them and let them modify YOUR behaviour
so what would you do about the terrorists in the mosque then ? give them some anger management lessons ?
String the bastards up I say.
I'd much rather have my identity and the identity of those around me logged onto a central computer if I knew it would help track down the guilty parties.
I'm innocent, therefore I have nothing to hide. Weapons were uncovered at the mosque, and it can be argued that we violated this guy's civil rights. However, a warrant was obtained by the courts, making the whole thing legal, and weapons and other articles relating to terrorism and people smuggling were found, and the guy, Abu Hamza or whatever his name is will hopefully be facing a sentence of life imprisonment or deportation.
I think the point is, the "violation of his civil liberties" has stopped the possible attack and murder of British citizens by persons associated with him. People like him don't deserve liberty, they deserve to be locked away.
The terrorists win when you are dead. Having our movements tracked, will at the end of the day make it harder for them to operate, if they can't operate they can't kill. We win.
It's one of the worst in the world in terms of harboring terrorism. But I feel we still have to keep an eye on not ruining our own countries ourselves. These arrests to me were welcome.
So should the government introduce ID cards and allow the police to stop people on demand to produce them?
along with hundreds of stolen passports and credit cards, 4 more Ricin attack suspects and a replica gun.
The raid was entirely justified.
I think the anti-terrorist bill does represent a decrease in the civil liberties of British citizens.
The govt can now legally lock you up indefinately without trial if you are suspected of terrorism, this is quite a significant cjange in our legal system don't you think?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1822772.stm
As they say, where there's smoke there's fire and by that token if one man is falsely accused there are surely others out there being turned into media scapegoats to serve vicious and paranoid people who want to believe that there are terrorists behind every tree. Gives the warmongers the carte blanche they need to worsen the problem until perhaps we do have such a scenario facing us.
One long cycle of self fulfilling prophesies courtesy of the MIC and our tax dollars.
Its far too easy at that point for political opponents, dissenters, or any host of racial or ethnic groups to be targetted and falsely accused by the state.
Especially since we can all see how willing the mjority is to believe whatever the papers say.