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Y vigilance stops terrorist in UK

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
You can read the full article on Yahoo. And there is an Iraqi connection. I put up part of this article for discussion.

6 Arrested in U.K. Over Poison Discovery



LONDON - Anti terrorist police said Tuesday they arrested six men of North African origin after finding traces of the poison ricin in London.


The six men were being questioned after an operation by Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist branch in north and east London.


Police said "equipment and materials" were found at an address in Wood Green where one of the men was detained. A woman who was also arrested had been released, police said in a statement.

Ricin — one of the world's deadliest toxins, twice as deadly as cobra venom — is derived from the seeds and pods of the castor bean plant and may be inhaled, ingested or injected. There is no known antidote.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And what would the Iraqi connection be?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The article said that Iraq had that poison and had given it to some tribe that had gotten cut off from it in the Northern no fly zone.

    Know what's wierd? This story just made the NY papers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wasnt aware ricin could be used as a bio weapon in the terrorist fashion IE infecting large numbers of random people..Didnt know it could be inhaled either.

    Wasnt that the stuff that was used to kill the bulgarian bloke with the umbrella?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That shows the utter desperation of the US and UK in trying to justify a war on Iraq and incriminate it in the production of WMDs and terrorism.

    Do a search on ricin and you will see that that it is an extremely easy toxin to procure. Every government in the world, every university, anyone with basic chemistry knowledge can produce the toxin. Every criminal, from assassins to gangsters can buy it for a modest amount of money. Hell, anyone who know their plants can go to the forest and pick up some beans.

    It is as ludicrous as saying Saddam killed JFK because he was shot with a rifle and Saddam has been photograph holding a rifle.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladin I come from a small, somewhat isolated beach town in the states so I could be naive, but even in reading news on the Internet...this is the second foiled attack on London in less than a month. They caught people who were going to do some chemical attack in London and at that Scottish festival Hogs something at New Years. So either Al Qaeda is really active or like you seem to think the Western governments are really lying. I'd be afraid not to trust the government...wouldn't you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On MSNBC's front page.

    LONDON, Jan. 7 — Anti-terrorist police said Tuesday they arrested six men of North African origin after finding traces of ricin, a deadly poison that in the past has been linked to al-Qaida and Iraq, in a London property.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasn't doubting the veracity of the story pnjsurferpoet, I was commenting on the 'Iraqi connection' you had heard about. I'm sure this incident has really happened, as I'm sure Al Queida is active and plotting. But they have absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, and the fact that you've heard noises, rumours or allegations that Iraq might have been behind these guys shows how pathetically desperate our governments are to convince the public a war on Iraq is justified.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BTW According to all of the news reports I have heard over here not once has there been any connection made with either Iraq or Al Qaeda. All reports refer to Algerian Men, rather than any possible connection.

    It is entirely possible that this attack would be on France and not the UK...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    So either Al Qaeda is really active or like you seem to think the Western governments are really lying.

    Why does everyone always assume every potential terrorist threat comes from this one organisation? There are hundreds if not thousands of terrorist groups in the world, not least the IRA. Whilst everyone is on the look out for mad gun weilding muslims, other terrorist groups are more likely to be planning something terrible.

    I reckon in the current climate anyone could claim to have caused a terrorist attack and the govts of the US and UK would say 'no, it wasn't you, it was Al Qaeda.'
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balddog you were right. This is on CNN today.

    LONDON, England -- It was one of the most notorious acts of assassination carried out during the Cold War.

    Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov was killed by poison dart filled with ricin and fired from an umbrella in London in 1978.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This was on Yahoo today. From the World section AP.

    Britian

    Ricin (pronounced RICE-in) is derived from the castor bean plant, which is grown around the world, and is relatively easy to produce. It has been linked in the past to Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime in Iraq.


    In Washington, U.S. officials said Tuesday that no al-Qaida links had yet been established to the London arrests, but that it was a matter being investigated.

    You're right, they don't know yet. Another news story said it was one of the chemicals found the first time in Iraq. I can see why basically the politicians in the US are saying do we want to take a chance that Saddam won't share capabilities? I say no. Why should we?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    It has been linked in the past to Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime in Iraq.

    Interesting that they missed out that the only recorded use of ricin was by the Bulgarians in that assassination...

    I'd say there was a link there too ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet

    Another news story said it was one of the chemicals found the first time in Iraq. I can see why basically the politicians in the US are saying do we want to take a chance that Saddam won't share capabilities? I say no. Why should we?

    Which proves my point that Bush, Blair and their cronies are getting increasingly desperate at the lack of progress with the projected war, and will throw all kind of wild accusations and scare stories in a pathetic attempt to gear up the public and other nations for war.

    Remember, it is not Iraq who has consistently shared technology and materials for the construction of WMDs... but the good old US of A and to a lesser extent, Britain.

    So when do we start bombing Washington to ensure they never again share WMD technology with madmen and dictators?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Y shouldn't the US and UK depose Saddam?

    I'm waiting. *taps foot*
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Y shouldn't the US and UK depose Saddam?
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    I'm waiting. *taps foot*

    Here you are. This is my answer on a previous thread (the Bremner, Bird and Fortune one) that you obviously forgot to reply to.

    "No one here is defending Saddam. What is being questioned is the REAL reasons behind Bush's push towards war. If you want to make some thinking of your own you might (or might not) reach several conclusions:

    - Iraq and the so-called war on terror have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. There is no evidence whatsoever that Iraq has or will provide weapons to Al Queida. As it has been pointed out already bin Laden and Al Queida despise Saddam Hussein for running Iraq as a secular state, as opposed to their version of a Islamic state they would like it to be. If nothing else I had thought you and every other American would have been disgusted by Bush's shameful hijacking of the 9/11 anniversary when he claimed Iraq and Al Queida are linked. Talk about insulting the memory of the 3,000 victims by pushing his agenda and lies on the very anniversary of the attacks.

    - The very muslim 'perverts' you so despise so have been operating labs in Northern Iraq in league with Al Queida. If anything Saddam is preventing the expansion of such people in the parts of Iraq he controls.

    - There is no evidence or reason in the world why Saddam Hussein would want to launch an attack on any Western country. Not one. For starters the only thing he would achieve was guaranteeing the destruction of Iraq and himself. He has absolutely no interests or reason to attack anyone. He invaded Kuwait because of oil interests, and it is clear to everyone including Saddam himself that the same thing won't be allowed to happen in the future.

    - As weeks pass by it is becoming more and more apparent that if anybody is telling porkies about Iraq's WMD programme is the US and the UK, not Iraq. Hussein has so far complied with every last demand we have thrown at him and the UN inspectors have not found a trace of a renewed weapons programme. The US continues to claim it has proof of otherwise but cannot reveal it because it would "compromise its sources". I mean, give me a fucking break!

    - Not forgetting that much of the anthrax and chemicals we hear so often about were SUPPLIED by the US and the UK. I guess it's okay to dump the stuff on Kurds and Iranian soldiers, but not on white Westerners.

    - With regard to the compliance of UN resolutions, danger to world peace and possession of illegal WMDs, the double standards and sheer hypocrisy of the US are astonishing. There is one little country also in the Middle East that is guilty of all of the above and has been allowed to carry on unchecked for 3 decades. If the US want to become the world's policeman it should start there, then resolve the situation in North Korea and in the Indian-Pakistani conflict, another two issues many times more dangerous to world peace than Iraq, and then move to address the Iraqi issue. It might also want to disarm itself a little; as the world's biggest amasser of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and the country that has invaded more nations than anybody else in the last 5 decades, the USA can be safely regarded as the biggest threat to world peace there is.

    Tell me again why we should invade Iraq?"

    I eagerly await your response :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    It has been linked in the past to Osama bin Laden

    In the past.

    Most things like this can be linked to most terrorist networks. I am with MoK on this one. The possibility of a link with an attack on France is plausable.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ricin is only any use as a method of assasin when ingested or enhaled in a confined area..so useless really. If they found traces in the flat how come the people living there weren't dead?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    ricin is only any use as a method of assasin when ingested or enhaled in a confined area..so useless really.

    Which isn't what a toxicologist will tell you. Apparently you could leave some on a turnstile in the underground for people to touch. It only takes milligrammes to kill, therefore anyone touching it, and then (for example) eating, is likely to ingest enough...

    Added to that is it's airborne capability...
    If they found traces in the flat how come the people living there weren't dead?

    Possibly in the same way that any other scientist doesn't die from the substances they handle...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    AH!!


    I wouldn't be afraid not to trust the government (In reply to pnjsurferpoet)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin that was a good argument. The argument that he would share his knowledge of chemicals and biologicals makes sense to me too. But, that's the reality of today and the dark side of the Internet and any technology in general. Look at what happened in Germany this past weekend. A nut steals a plane and closes down a major city and airport. Plus, his success is broadcast to every other nut in the world.

    To me, this does seem like an Algerian link as was the threats to Scotland and London around New Years. I know a little about the hatred of some Algerians towards the French...but what do they have against the British?
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