Separation of church & state...and Mosque.

Former Member

Is the West being played? When some Muslim clerics use their mosques to preach hatred...should they lose any tax exempt status they may hold. I know the UK last year passed new laws that would allow Muslim clerics to be arrested for calling for murdering leaders etc. in the UK, and Malaysia, a Muslim country has put cameras up in mosques to stop the abuse...I still think the West is being used by Muslims perverts/extremists who enter the countries to use them as platforms for their hatred. What do you think?

Former Member

In the same way that church pulpits in America have been used to preach hatred and violence as well. Religious fanatics aren't only Muslim my boy!

Former Member

put religion in a rocket and blast it off to the sun. on board could be those who are convinced that thier god will reward them.

Former Member

PNJ, Why do you hate Islam so?

Inspite of your protests of innocence, most of your threads seem to attack the religion. Yet, as Calndestine has pointed out, religious leaders from across the spectrum - notably the Christian Right in your own country - have similar approaches. So why to pick on just the one?

Former Member

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
PNJ, Why do you hate Islam so?

So why to pick on just the one?

Probably because of the recent 9/11 disaster that caused so much hurt and pain to the people of his country. And before you start, no, i'm not saying that the religion of Islam is the only religion with fanatics that cause this kind of havoc. I can see his/her point of view. For example, If a group of people from a certain club came and beat me up, I would show the same kind of 'hatred' generally towards that whole club because of what people out of that club did to me (If you get me..sorry I'm not very good at wording things)

Former Member

Originally posted by its meeeee

Probably because of the recent 9/11 disaster that caused so much hurt and pain to the people of his country. And before you start, no, i'm not saying that the religion of Islam is the only religion with fanatics that cause this kind of havoc. I can see his/her point of view. For example, If a group of people from a certain club came and beat me up, I would show the same kind of 'hatred' generally towards that whole club because of what people out of that club did to me (If you get me..sorry I'm not very good at wording things)

Hardly a reason to hate an entire religion though is it?

Unless you think it acceptable for jews to hate Chritians because of what the Germans and the Catholic church did to them in the forties (how many millions?) and let's face it, in terms of magnitude the WTC attacks is hardly a pin-prick.

Of course, a wiser man would have realised that it wasn't Islam that attacked the US on 11/9, but a few terrorists using Islam as a cover. The attack had no religious basis at all, not one jot. To now blame Islam just gives these morons credibility...

Former Member

Kent, I repeatedly said to YOU on this board that I don't view Bin Laden's gang as true Muslims. They are perverting the Muslim religion. The Muslim cleric in the Norhern London mosque who blew his hands off when trying to create an explosive and now shoots his mouth off from the pulpit is abusing the UK's tolerance the way some do in my country.

Clandestine. Never in all of my years going to church have I ever once hear a priest call for violence of any kind. That might be because we are taught to: turn the other cheek. Any Christian would know that.

But my point again is against the radical Muslims who are turning the religion into a death cult. My friend's a Pakistani Muslim who is not like that at all.

Former Member

Still, you seem to be obsessed with the issue, and if you review your 350 posts in here you'll see yourself that 95% of them contain the same rant about 'perverts', 'muslims', patriot US muslims in Special Operations and so on.

Yes, there is a very small minority of extremists who kill and terrorise in the name of islam (out of 1bn members at the last count). There are also a few ultra right wing christians and jewish fundamentalists out there killing and maiming but we never hear you talking about those particular 'perverts'.

Things are not as black and white as you seem to perceive them; and conflicts are certainly more complex than just a few religious nutters running amok.

Former Member

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
now shoots his mouth off from the pulpit is abusing the UK's tolerance the way some do in my country.

Actually I'm proud of the fact that he is able to shout his mouth off. It's called "Freedom"...

Kent, I repeatedly said to YOU on this board that I don't view Bin Laden's gang as true Muslims. They are perverting the Muslim religion.

Yet your postings show otherwise. You may put a disclaimer in some of your comments but the fact remains that a large number of your comments are anti-Islam.

Former Member

Cause Kent, some people view Muslim extremists as Muslims. To me that makes them racist. I view Muslim extremists, or as I call them Muslim perverts as people who are perverting the religion. How you could be proud of that freak of nature cleric is beyond me.

I post about lot's of things Alladin. However, they are the group hell bent on destroying my country. So yeah, when it comes to expressing something that 's on my mind...they are.

Former Member

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
How you could be proud of that freak of nature cleric is beyond me.

I'm not proud of him, I'm proud of living in a country which allows him enough freedom to say those things. There are many countries around the world which don't allow people to speak so freely. Including many of those he supports...

Former Member

pnj, I spent many years in Evangelical Christianity as a teen and young adult and I can tell you (having come out of A Roman Catholic background) that Catholicism is not what is referred to when speaking of the "Christian Right". This phenomenon and its fanatical roots are planted firmly within the Protestant evangelical community where adherence to literal biblical injusnctions is taken to an extreme.

So I have no doubt that youve never heard a priest call for extreme actions since priests are Catholic not Protestant.

Just be wary of thinking you have all the insights at 16 my young friend. It appears you know as little about the driving forces of our own home grown religious radicals as you do about geo-political interests and our own national culpability in the overall global crisis we face today.

Former Member

I read your posts too for info Clandestine. But in the book American Jihad and I've read the quotes from the cleric who runs the mosque in Northern London and the only way to take the speeches is that these religious leaders are calling for murder. There's no other way to take them. But now in my friend's mosque....they never talk like that. (Yup I've been there.) So again, I'm talking about people who abuse it.

And I don't like the religious right, or in general, born again Christians. Beneath their smiles...there's a lot of hatred. They seem to get pleasure out of thinking lot's of people will die and go to hell.

Former Member

Indeed they do pnj. One reason why I was out of organised religion altogether by my early 20's. Its all about controlling how people think and act (with heavy doses of fear and guilt thrown in for reinforcement) regardless of what particular denomication or sect one happens to belong to.

Just dont be so selective in pointing the finger at vitriolic muslim clerics, when we have vitriolic evangelical preachers who advocate bombing abortion clinics, or worse.

Hatred is hatred wherever it stems from, and it is just as destructive a force regardless of whether the person it controls is Caucasian or Middle Eastern or African, or Asian.