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Day of action in London solidarity with the uprising in Argentina.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
On Saturday the 21st of December there will be a day of action in solidarity with the people of Argentina who last December rose up and overthrew their corrupt government. The action starts at 12noon at Oxford Circus on Oxford Street in central London. There is a call for this to be a day of disobedience with people being told to bring pots and pans to bang in the street like the people of Argentina did last year during the massive uprising there and to try to bring Oxford Street to a standstill on the busiest shopping day of the year inorder to dirupt trade for the day and to show that the people of Argentina have world wide support for their uprising. There will be other events during the day of action which is being organised by a group called the WOMBLES.
Full details of the days events are here.
Full details of the days events are here.
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... as protests against the relocation of Wimbledon FC to Milton Keynes gain momentum.
Our system is going strong, why do we need to exactly?
Or is it getting boring raping people because you can't find any bread or something?
LOL I was going to say that, after seeing the exact same post on liv4now by harlequin
Interesting viewpoint there...
I wonder what you would have argued for in 1939 (or before)? I mean after all the fact that a mass extermination of peoples non German and the invasion of Europe probably would have benefitted "us" eventually, especially since Hitler wanted to create an alliance and trade treaties with the UK. It wasn't reallyt any of our business what Hitler was doing there.
But then people gave their actual lives in defence of peace and the wealfare of peoples not our own in WW2- all this guy is suggesting is to spend some money on a bus ticket and stand around banging pots and pans to try and help another country's people.
But then I guess its "none of our business" and so not really worthwhile. Nice attitude.
I'm not saying the thing in Argentina is none of my buisness, what I was saying was:
"I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE ECONOMIC CRISIS IN ARGENTINA".
As well as that, I don't even agree with the anti capitalists anyway, it's better than any other system we could ever think of, so why you think I'd spend £40 on a train ticket to tell people why I hate it is beyond me.
During that war too, there was no attempt made by the allies to stop the holocaust by bombing the railway lines to Aushwitz or to admit large numbers of Jewish refugees. Instead the allies concentrated on mass bombing of German cities which resulted in millions of civilian casualties and deaths. After the war the fascist regimes of Spain and Portugal were left intact while large numbers of Nazi war criminals were allowed to escape. So to say that this was a war for freedom and democracy is false especially as half of Europe as a result of the war fell under the brutal dictatorship of the Soviet Union a regime which had no more respect for freedom and democracy than Nazi Germany had.
In 1936 thousands of ordinary people from the UK and other countries went to fight fascism in Spain in 1936 against Francos Fascists during the Spanish civil war. They were fighting for freedom and democracy but Britain and other western countries refused to help out then because their economic interests were not at stake!
It doesn't happen often but I agree with Steelie on this one.
You could have added that even though no country gave a shit about the Spanish Civil War they could at least taken out Franco at the end of WWII (who regardless of 'neutrality' had sent thousands of men to fight alongside Hitler's troops). But no, better to have a little fascist in power than a democratically elected left wing government.
A prize to the first person to ridicule steelgates post simply because it is by steelgate rather than produce a proper argument.........
Combine this with the fact that the Allies had very little knowledge of what was going on anyway would make the bombing of targets not essential to the war effort too much of a risk.
And yes, during the second world war, cities were essential targets.
If you knew anything, you'd know that the main plan of attack was to destroy Germany's infrastructure, their factories, their houses in an attempt to bomb the German people into submission. The Germans did it, the Yanks did it, the Japanese did it and the Russians did too.
It was a standard strategic tactic during that period, bring the war to the enemy civilians so they will be forced to surrender.
Saying they did it to is not an argument.......
Also all economic crises will affect us indirectly so maybe you should give a shit about Aregentina even if you are purely self-interested at the personal or national level........
somethings never change.
You judge an era by their standards, not by yours. The participants in WWII obviously did consider it right.
Bombing civillians was Ok then but not now?
Iraq is less culturally advanced so we should judge Saddams genocide by 'Iraqi' standards?
Personally I believe that morality is trans-historical. Just because something was not accepted as immoral then it does not mean that it isn't so if the arguments support it even if they are written in a different time and place........
Far better would have been an attempt to get the German people to rise up against the Nazi regime through propaganda and support for partisan groups such as the French resistance who where fighting Nazism directly without attacking the ordinary German people!
Yeah, right. You have any idea how BLOODY armed uprisings are? Especially against a regime that has no compunctions about using force against their own population?
Hmm, just how many of these 'ordinary Germans' were armed for the majority of the 6 years of warfare? How many supported the Nazis? how many supported the persecution of jews?
Do I need to go on? How many jews would have to have died while your slow solution had taken effect - how much of Russia (the bloodiest front) would have been left if they hadn't fought back?
One thing I have to say Steelgate, is that at least you are consitent.
I know.
Point being that it assumes that these people didn't help prop up the Nazi party, or that the production of military hardware was done by magic rather than these very people. Machinery can be rebuilt, people can't.
There was also the suggestion that Germans should have had an organised uprising. Easier done in a democratic society than an oppressive one, so easier for us to suggest it. Had the Germans truly wanted to rebel, the umpteen million of them who were armed could have done so...
I don't like the fact that civillians were killed, but I understand why it was necessary.
Of course it would have been very difficult to organise a proper rebellion, thats why he suggested we help them rather then massacre them. Hitler never had a full majority of course there were many active supporters of his but they were not the majority before the war and it is unlikely they were during it. Any rebellion would have been crushed without external assistance..........