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Debate with the BNP?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I'm sure you will have seen that a leading Lib Dem MP was intending to engage in live debate with the BNP leader Nick Griffin at Cambridge Uni but the 'Labour' students group managed to get it cancelled because they claimed Griffin was going to use it to 'incite hate'
Do you think this is the best way to deal with the BNP?
Do you think this is the best way to deal with the BNP?
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Issues such as immigration, multiculturalism, race, homosexuality etc are not just black and white issues. The BNP will not engage in debate about the reasons behind immigration and asylum seeking, or the advantages of having a multi-cultural society. They will just scream "we're being invaded by non-white parasites who want to milk our generous welfare system and make us a mongrel race". And that is all some people need to hear.
So as far as I'm concerned the less exposure they have the better. There aren't many intelligent people who adhere to such views. You cannot engage in intelligent and constructive debate with BNP followers.
You have to bear in mind that these people, while despising democracy and all social freedom, take advantage of it and spread hatred and racialist messages advocating their freedom of speech. Of course we all know what would happen should such people ever gain power... I don't have a problem if 'pure' democracy is violated by banning, marginalising or otherwise persecuting such groups as the BNP. They are the true enemies of democracy and the world would be a better place without scum like them participating in the democratic process. Had Hitler and his party been banned from taking part in elections a lot of grief would have been avoided.
"The BNP will not engage in debate about the reasons behind immigration and asylum seeking, or the advantages of having a multi-cultural society. They will just scream "we're being invaded by non-white parasites who want to milk our generous welfare system and make us a mongrel race". And that is all some people need to hear."
Alladin, worldwide from what I've read, this kind of ignorant talk has been rejected. In America, in www.capemay.com my hometown to be exact, on 9/12 Christians went to the local mosque to ensure Muslims felt welcomed and knew laws protected them. Some jerks in America have done things but not many.
Makes you wonder why the hawks dont want that fact too widely broadcast on a regular basis to the general American public. It would raise serious questions as to what are the real truths behind 9/11 and the sudden villification of OBL.
Might be he is just another little known/understood (by average Americans) scapegoat who is easily believed to be our public enemy #1 by the majority who havent bothered to look into what our government's ties to him have been for decades.
Agree with everything they say
Then say in a welsh accent
" and you can start with those Anglo- saxon so-and-sos's "
:rolleyes:
It may be a well intentioned position but it makes you as bad as them.
Such people need to be argued with and shown to be the fools they are. Until that happens, in public, they will continue to gain support and have the mystique they currently enjoy...They are the group that the left seek to censor, that alone peaks a lot of curiosity and publicity.
In the same way that German law bans Nazis from glorifying Hitler, I don't see anything wrong with students applying pressure so bigots aren't allowed to spread their filth in one of the world's oldest universities.
Most right wing individuals or groups would be allowed to put their views across. The BNP however is well over the line- in some countries their manifesto would break the law for racial hatred incitement- and as long as they behave like animals they should be treated as such.
Over the last few months, ive heard more people say they will vote for the BNP than ever before in my life. That scares the shit out of me...The no platform approach is not working, BNP support is growing daily..
Surely, of all people, the people at university should be able to actually debate these people and not be taken in by the bullshit? You would have a slight point if this were a broadcast in front of the public but its not, its in front of some of the best minds in the country..Are our students so easily influenced?
If the BNP are gaining more votes from the electorate this is partly because of the press coverage they already enjoy and the twisted and distorted claims they shout to the four winds. What kind of message are you sending to the world if you allow those people engage in 'rational' debate in one of the most sacred educational institutions in the world? And can you really blame students for trying to ban them from speaking in their university? Would you allow bin Laden or the killers of Stephen Lawrence have a press conference from your home for the sake of freedom of speech?
Maybe a slightly less outrageous analogy? I would be perfectly willing to allow a fundamentalist muslim group to come and speak at my college..
You can deny it as much as you want, you can label the BNP as less than human and not worthy of consideration until the cows come home..That wont change the fact that you are advocating the total censorship of a group because you disagree with their views.
If the BNP were given a platform, they would show themselves to be the pile of crap party they actually are. People would see they have no real policies and would forget about them.
Until that happens, they will continue to be shrouded in secrecy and mystery and people will continue to flock to them, convinced that they must have reasonable policies to cover everything else..
I agree with that one, Free speech means free speech, Not Free speech unless you waish to talk about X, Y or Z
On the other hand, Liberty with out limits is no liberty at all, Other wise we WILL degenerate in to 'dictatorship of the proletariate' which in my understanding = mob rule, Lynch mobs etc.
As long as we socialy refuse to even give these people the platform to espouse their unsavory rubbish, they will attract attention and support. I feel its best to say 'go ahead' and then exersise my right/privalage to ignore them completely.
Actually, the worst thing that can happen, from one viewpoint, is that under pressure to remain politically viable, they reach a compromise position where they receive massive support on things like immigration and positive discrimination. But that comes back to splitting the Tory vote again.
i'd want to censor them because what they say sparks off violence, changes peoples opinions, turns peacefull non racists the other way round, causes injury and death, has no argument behind it etc.
THe moral being: racism is irrational. hence, if you take it to pieces in argument, you can prove beyond doubt why it is wrong. And in so doing you render them much less powerful.
On the other hand, if you don't let them speak, you make martyrs out of them, make people fascinated with the forbidden ideas, and betray the very ideals which you're supposed to be upholding. Also, Griffin has got much more mileage outof this whole thing ebcause he was banned than he would have if they'd let him speak. He WANTS to be forbidden! so much more publicity that way, whereas if he'd spoken, ex-cambridge studdent that he is, he would have been squashed.
By the way, it was a pretty large group that wanted to stop him, not just a labour group. Students Union, black, gay, islamic groups, etc.
(Also, I'm pretty sure I saw paxman taking griffin to pieces.)
Prufrock, My own view on Multiculturisum is that it has been a disaster for the UK. And I can only see things getting worse, we are a nation very un atease with itself, and it will only take one instance to light the tinder spark that could lead to civil war. Such an instance could be a terrorist attack on the UK akin to 9/11.
I’d be interested to hear your views on why multiculturisum has been good for the UK and in what ways you thing the average Joe Soap white guy has benefited.
As the leftie brigade tell us we should rejoice and celebrate multiculturisum, but I see little to cheer about, and lots that bring despair.
If broadens the mind if nothing else. This country could do with as big a dose of that as we can get.
By mixing with other customs and cultures we all enrich ourselves. I suspect most people who reject other cultures are acting on the deep-rooted yet extremely stupid instinct of disliking and not trusting what we are not familiar with.