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EU "talk"
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Today in school we were suposed to have an outside speaker come in to give us a basic introduction to the European Union as next week we are going to be having a debate or something about the euro. However the person did not do what he was told to do....he gave the most anti-EU talk i have EVER heard:eek: He never even told us how it works he just ranted on about how Britain will no longer be a country and will just be a part of Europe. One of the things he complained about was Britain only being able to vote in 14% of the EU Parliament. He didnt seem to mention that british MEPS make up on 14% of the parliament....why should we vote in foreign MEPS? The man got a kinda applause and was promptly led out of the lecture theatre. We then got a breif talk on the postive points of the EU by a teacher off the top of thier head. If it had been any other place apparently we could have walked out (according to my politics teacher anyway) but we were stuck in the lecture theatre having to listen to this man rant about how bad the EU is. How is this talk supposed to be imforming us of the role of the EU:rolleyes: Now 350 odd 6th formers have this mans ideas in thier heads......hopefully some people will be bright enough to realise theres another side to the argument.
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Given that most people have been fed a steady diet of "the EU according to The Sun" and brash statements from nutcases like Norman Tebbitt, it's not surprising that this clown fancied himself an expert and thus weasled his way into your lecture hall.
Maybe you should get your politics professor to take the class on a field trip to Brussels to see it at work for yourselves.
It's an important subject/issue. But unfortunately, you'll only get one point of view, when it's not for an actual politics class, or a deeper going theme.
When we had about political issues in my old school, the teachers would form us into pro- and anti-groups, needing to argument for "our" stance regarding the subject.
Though I would say, that the teachers personal opinion, would very rarely go un-noticed. :rolleyes:
Clandestine, it's quite un-realistic getting a class flown to Brussel, just for the sake of hearing/seeing a different opinion regarding the EU.
For your info, whilst in the EP I saw numerous school groups passing through the corridors and my own boss addressed numerous student groups over the time i was there.
They have an entire visitor's section devoted to assisting groups (from students to old age pensioners) in visiting the EU institutions and getting a firsthand picture of what its all about.
Mine too, but still, this is a very good demonstration of how not to conduct a proper debate. The EU is a big issue with many facets. It needs proper, informed debate not rants and scaremongering.
Erm....that was done at my school....so no it isn't and it isn't just to hear another view, it's to see how it's run, the places. Just gives a broader view to base ideas and arguements on. It's unfair for people to make their judgement based purely on what we see over here.
History classes regularly go over there as well....Anything that is an educational bonus for pupils schools will allow to happen. Just takes abit of push from the pupils sometimes, cos teachers are lazy and don't like anything that means extra work for them. :rolleyes:
Nop not wasting tax payers money. Giving young people a good round education isn't wasting tax money. It's about time kids were given a more thorough education on this sort of thing. I know I wish I had (didn't do politics).
How is the UK going to expand if people are only shown one side of the coin so to speak? If people just listen (or can only get told) to what we are told we won't progress at all. I have my doubts, but alot of them come from not having been able to see both sides of the story. Hopefully I will do in the not to distant future.
Er...yes it is.
How much does it cost to fly 30 children/teachers per school to Brussels? Now compare that with how much it would cost to fly the speaker from Brussels to the UK to speak to several schools in one go...or to tour.
Which one do you think would be most cost effective?
As for the case in question, I am anti-EU governance, and Clandestine this isn't because the Sun or Normo Tebs tells me to, but because I have made myself oware of many of the issue and I don't see it as condusive to good relations nor in the interest of the general population.
That said, I still expect both "sides" of the issue to be discussed openly. Especially in school.
Frankly, as we always used to say back when i was in the EP, if the UK is so adamant in heel dragging, why doesn't it just leave the EU? It wouldn't take more than a few years for it to become clear to the public how much worse off it would be.
If you think the island could sustain a growing economy purely on the back of amicable relations with the US (when in fact the EU is by far the larger trading partner to the UK) you'd be in for a rude awakening.
Have nothing at all against the EU. Watching it work first hand, is the best thing when wanting to get an idea of what goes on.
I am just stating that it's very unlikely that such a trip will be arranged from one day to the other, just cause of that specific speech-holder.
Usually there will be a lot of EU talks, and preperations to such a trip. Not just one negative speech.
And as MoK said, financially it would be easier to get an EU-representant to speak at a school, than flying a whole class to the representant.
"When Muhammed can't come to the mountain, then let the mountain come to Muhammed" as they say
And that was the point of my post, while being very well aware of what I was talking about, Clandestine. Thank you!
I'll accept that the EP has instituted some useful legislation but it always faces the same problem - diversity and enforcement.
The diversity issue is a biggie, in that what may be relevant for one part of the EU is wholly unsuitable for the rest, yet the law applies to all. Different nation have differing objectives which affect large numbers of people. The political make up of national politics also differs across the EU, for example France being more socialist (even in Chirac) and the UK less so. So this brings widely differing approaches - look at the CAP as an example.
Then there's enforcement of EU legislation. Does this happen? Really? Again a UK perspective (for that is all I can really give) would point to the beef exports row. Our "partners" in France were the only nation to refuse to accept our imports, as I understand it even the US removed their embago. Yet the EU said it was fine. But there are other examples...
So how about directives? Big one over here is "weights and measures", way change them? Conformity? Is that really a good enough reason to change the UK system?
Human Rights Act, whilst offering many positive aspects to UK law is also showing huge problems, in fact it appears to offer more for lawyers than anyone else
and then there is Democracy. Earlier posts refer to the UK having 14% of the seats. Are we 14% of the population, and what about when the new members join, will our seats (as a %) be reduced, if so doesn't this reduce the voice which we, as a population, have in the parliament?
I don't doubt that there are issues locally, in that what suits Hull doesn't suit London, but you are dealing with few people. When a policy negatovely affects 55m people, it is a BIG issue.
The biggest threat, and influence, on this situation is that the UK electorate has been lied to from day 1. Father Ted told the electorate that they were joining a "trade" organisation. Not a political institution. Some people will never forget that, and so won't trust politicians on this issue again...
and you'd find many in the UK who would support such a move.
There are wildly differing opinion of the EU locally. Talk to people in Ireland and they will tell you how wonderful it is. But then they have recieved so much more from it. Certainly in terms on money invested they have recieved six times that amount back. In the UK that comparison is different and we are still paying in more than we return...that breeds comtempt.
Fine, lets find out, but if the current situation with the Euro is an example I doubt you will see us clamouring to return in a hurry...
Point there being that no EU country soley trades within the EU, and there is no reason for trade between states to stop if one "partner" leaves...
Renzo, I'd suggest you contact Britain in Europe and give them further details. I'm sure they'll be interested to look up at this case.
Also i dont believe tax payers have to pay for the trips *I* have to! Ive had to pay like £20 to go to a politcal conferance with my class next friday
If the British system is just a teeny bit similar to the Danish ones, then I don't think that you are right. You contribute, but that's it. The pupils money alone, wouldn't reach long, even if it can seem expensive.
Can show you examples from two schools.
My old school was private, and therefore the basic funds for such a trip would come from private donations and fonds. Directly the tax-payers weren't paying for this trip. But the students money alone, would maybe get us on a two day trip to Sweden. You need to concider all the expenses. It's not just transport, resort, activities and insurance being paid. But also teachers-pay, and substitute teachers for the classes who will miss those teachers during your trip.
The new school is public school, and the money which the school uses for foreign trips is in this case tax-payers money which goes to uphold and maintain the school.
Well that's a bummer.
Ideally he should have given a rounded introduction (such as the supranational effect of the institution, the European Coal and Steel Commuity, Treaty of Rome, etc.) to the EU and not simply voice his personal or subjective viewpoints on the organisation.
Yeah your right there. Pupils do only contribute, but it is a fairly large percentage in most cases over here, but that varies a lot from school to school. I know my school charged pupils a lot more for the same trips as my sister-in-law takes her pupils on.
Yeah, thats true, but how much less effective is that from letting a group of 30-40 kids go round the EP, see it in situ and how it runs. Rather than just listening to one person give a lecture on it.
I know I'd be far more interested and learn more from seeing it than sitting in a lecture theatre. If I think back to my school days I would have been more likely to either talk to me mates or write messages to them, send texts etc and pay no attention at all in a lecture. Which is also true for the majority of school/college pupils, not all, but certainly a lot. So in that case it's more beneficial to fly the kids over there, rather than just fly one guy back over here.
Your arguing for arguments sake, no need............
:yes: I like arguing...sorry