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Who is Going on 'The March'?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Just wondering who was going on Sunday. I am rather worried by the lack of build up to it in the forum.
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I wonder how i can persuade him to join the labour party... it could be just what i'm looking for to produce a national swing to the left (lib-dem... i know that's where labour used to be, but thats kind of my point)..
Aww.. steely... you know i'm only joking.
Most of the people on here are Townies Gandalf, and so I suspect that they aren't so interested. But I myself am a proud country boy.
However, I can see this march for what it is, and won't be going. Personally I believe that the people marching are as much a threat to the countryside as the Govt. For example it isn't the Govt who cuts down hedgerows, thus allowing the rain to errode the topsoil, and its not the Govt who pollute our rivers with pesticides...
Besides the march will be hijaked by the pro-hunting lobby, who for some reason think that hunting is connected to the countryside.
Yes our farmers are victims of major stores, giving them crap prices for their produce, but the farmers really need to take a huge slice of responsibilty for what happens in our countryside rather than blames anyone and everyone.
When I look around my area during election time, I can see many farmers putting up Conservative Party placards, esp on the land which backs onto main roads. Naturally their political leanings have no bearing on their approach... :yeees:
BTW Have you heard that there are two routes, one called the Rich route which is for the "gentry", and which will be partially supported by the Eton schoolboys. The other route is for the "oiks" I suppose... Really sums up a huge part of the problem.
Failing that, a bit of posh looking for a bit of rough!
Funny how you see that as atypical country reaction.
It is of course...
Steelgate, those meadows you are talking about belong to the farmers. No-one forces them to sell, and they make a fortune out of it. The farmers are still able to grow more food that this country can possibly consume (see the recent over production of milk as an example)...
However, I do agree (and now I feel faint) with your comments on rural school and post offices, and would add local shops to that list, even though they would survive if local people actually used them.
(cue This is a local shop for local people gag)
Unfortunately the march will be hijaked by the pro-hunting lobby, and lets be honest regardless of the rights and wrongs of that issue, it isn't something that many in the countryside really worry about. They certainly don't see it as a real protesting issue.
Now, if you don't mind I'm gonna have a lie down. I'm struggling to get my head around this agreement with Steelgate thing.
I have plenty of mates who are farmers and know my fair share of people who actually run these farms. My mates are hard grafters often working more than 12 hour shifts in the summe,r and yet they get fuck all for it. There's no good telling them to find another job, farming is all they've come to know, for many the farm has been in the family for generations. Someone mentioned the fact that meadows are being replaced by buildings and so forth. Don't you think it's sad that many farmers find that the only way they can make a decent amount of cash is by selling the land that has been in their familly for years?
As for the hunting lobby hijacking this march, I don't think it's a clever thing to do. This march is about more than just fox hunting, though I don't blame the pro hunting lobby for using this march as a statement. I don't particulary condone fox hunting but at the end of the day it is an important issue that fits right in with the other issues concernered in this march. Although I'm not into the hunts I still enjoy shooting and fishing on a regular basis, and I'm worried about what will come next if fox huting is banned. Why are people so concered with fox hunting when there are millions of other issues that are far more importatnt. Threre's all these people who dedicate there time to anti hunting protests, when their time and money would be much better spent helping the homeless or the needy in third word countries. It's only a fox for god sake. A ban on Fox hunting will cause the death's of thousand's of animals (horses and hounds) and will also mean a lot of people will lose thjeir jobs and livelyhoods. This is why fox hunting will be an important issue tomorrow. It's just an example of how the city remains ingnorant f the countryside and the views of the people who live there and manage it.
As Steelgte mentioned the services in tghe country are shit. It cost me about £5 in petrol just to go to the nearest gas station. There is one bus that runs through my village at a rate of once every 2 hours and costs in excess of a fiver just to get to and back from town.
At the end of the day so many people wouldn't be marching tomorrow if there wasn't some serious issues that need adressing regarding the countryside. People feel let down.
(Apologies if this is written badly but I'm pissed and I'm not a politics poster anyway - just needed to share my view)
forced to march,
ready to fight!
- One man said, "We're gonna bring central London to a standstill, that'll get their attention!". He obviously has never been to central London before!
- "I'd don't belive in marches, and I wouldn't march for anything else, but I'll march for this." A priest whose faith evidently means less to him than hunting!
I'm agreement with many here. There are many issues involving the countryside that really do need addressing, but sadly this march will just hi jacked by the pro hunters and the rahs who will turn it into just a bit of cliched Blair bashing, and thus detract fromt he many salient points that the people have to make.
I think it's about time that the Conservative-voting country "folk" get a taste of what it's like to be crushed by the jack-boot of capitalism. How many of them do you think supported the miners when they were being systematically destroyed? Mining was the only thing they knew. It had been in their family for generations. The main difference was that they didn't have any land to sell off to keep them out of dire poverty. How many farmers were sympathetic to the miners? And now they want our sympathy in exactly the same position?
The Common Agricultural Policy is the single largest expense of the European Union. Farmers literally get paid to do nothing, and now cannot compete with cheaper, higher quality foreign imports. This is called capitalism. If they don't like it, they should vote socialist.
Since, through the CAP, the people in the city are the ones who overwhelmingly finance the countryside, shouldn't they have a say in what goes on? Fox hunting is barbaric. Would you like to be chased by a raging mob then be torn to shreads? The horses and dogs are put down when they reach the end of their usefulness anyway. If the huntsmen really cared that much about them, why aren't there dog retirement homes?
I'd be happy if a proportion of the money thrown into the bottomless pit of the CAP was used to improve countryside services. But once again its the capitalist system of supply and demand - of course these things will be less regular and more expensive if there are less people to use them. I put up with capitalism, why can't you?
Yes, I hate the what the countryside has become passionately. I was born in London, and have lived in London all my life. Perhaps I am an ignorant Townie.
The single worst crisis the countryside has faced, the BSE epidemic, was caused by greedy bastards feeding the cows all kind of shit, including grounded meat, in order to fatten them to the maximum. It has so far caused the death of some 80 people, and the worst estimates predict many thousands will die in the next 20 years. Not to mention the tens of billions of Pounds Britain lost as a result.
Lessons are still not learned and many farmers continue to supply antibiotics to their poultry, despite repeated warnings that this has started to produce new generations of antibiotic-resistant germs. This potential time bomb could have catastrophic consequences for the human population but hey, why let a few thousand lives stand in the way of bigger profits?
As for the hunting lot, foxhunting is a barbaric, cruel practice and should be banned. End of. If we don't allow dog or cock fighting then there is no reason why we should allow this. What about the 'liberty' of those who enjoy dog fighting to carry out their 'sport'? Don't they have a right too?
Like I said, as a country "bumpkin" I agree with the costs of living in the country argument, but if I didn't like the bonuses that come with leaving here (like clean air, no traffic noise etc) then I could quite easily move. I'm happy to pay for those little extras, obviously I'm in a minority.
There are far more serious issues facing the countryside and country people than the ban on hunting such as the closure of rural services like post offices, schools, pubs and bus services and the selling off of valuable farmland for building on and British farmers facing poverty and ruin due to things like the foot and mouth crisis and foreign imports of food. Something which the pro-hunters don't really give a damn about!:mad:
I live in London and I was marching today! I was marching through Whitehall when the count hit 250,000, the final total was over 400,00 people. The atmosphere was amazing, people had come from all over the world to march through London today. The march was not just pro hunting, it was for the LIBERTY AND LIVLIHOOD of the countryside comunities, a very worthwhile cause in my opinion! :yes:
As I said before I really don't have a strong opinion on fox hunting, I really don't think it's that important an issue. My view is that huting is pretty pointless inless you're going to eat your quarry, what's the point in klilling if your not going to enjoy having it for supper? What does worry me is what will come next, Shooting? Fishing? ...two hobbies/sports I find quite enjoyable. which will probably be next on the list for these animal rights campaingers who's behaviour often means they resemble animals themselves.
My reason for going up today was to support the local farmers, many of which happen to be my mates. At the end of the day whether you agree with the marchers or not you have to concede there is something definately wrong for over 400,000 people to march through the capitol of this country.
This march should really have took place 30 years ago as succesive governments have constantly ignored rural issues. I think the big turn out this time was partly due to the foot and mouth crisis which hit an already struggling farming industry.
There was a large demonstration by farmers in Kent back in 1970 in Maidstone but nothing like as big as the march yesterday. It would have been better if the National Farmers Union had organised the march instead of the hunt dominated countryside alliance.
The fact that it was 'hijacked' by pro-hunting people is utter crap. The Countryside Alliance organised it and their aim is to stop a ban of Fishing, Hunting and Shooting, but also all of the other rural issues. To say that it was hijcaked by pro hunting people is like saying anti-capiatalist people hijack the may day protests.
The title of the march gives a SMALL hint as to what it is about. People were marching for their livelihood. Thousands of people WILL loosed their jobs and the countryside will fade if the current government keep on with its current agenda.
So when all of you lot are complaining about how the governmnent is ruining public service, the NHS is fading and all of the other problems that are crippling this country you can't complain! The government is trying to supress the minorities in the countryside. It's too busy to deal with the REAL issues.
And what would you prefer to have on your streets of the capital. 400,000 people protesting peacefully with justy 4 arrests (two of those were animal rights activists), or you can have the usual chaos of a mayday riot with god knows how many arests, a huge poloicing bill and a clean up and repair bill that runs into the billions?
Sorry, but that is bollocks. The CA was set up to fight the anti-hunting with dogs lobby. Becuase the majority of the nation supports this ideal, the CA had to fins something which would unite more of the rural population, hence the addition of other causes.
The title means absolutely nothing. Do you honestly believe that people are arguing against liberty?
How is that under threat?
None of which were part of the march. So your point is...?
Again, bollocks. How are they supressing the rural community?
I don't see how the two can even be linked - although I am pleased to see a peaceful protest and I'll bet next weeks doesn't pass so peacefully.
If you want capitalism then you have to accept that sometimes it works against you. The loss of livlihood is one of those forces...
'None of which were part of the march. So your point is...?'
My point was that instead of focusing on these things, the government is focusing on and wasting time on something which doesn't need changing.
As some of te banners said yesterday, if the countryside were of an ethnci minortiy, they would recieve all of the help the government could give them.
Blair - The New Mugabe?
How is that so? What would you want the Govt to do about the NHS (your example) that they aren't already? Something which would take up the Commons time, which is all we really need to do to stop hunting...
And when you have a large portion of the country who want it stopped, I'd say it does need changing...
Really. So the recent riots in Bradford etc we because the Govt trips over itself in trying to help the minorites then, does it?
Point to note, just how much money comes into farming from the CAP? You know, directly out of our taxes to a specific segment of the population...
Oh please, really :yeees:
That really is beneath you, and doesn't do the argument any justice at all.
They were marching for a viable future for the farmers and rural communities.
They were demanding political and public respect for rural communities' values and rights.
They marched for animal welfare. Country sports are the most humane ways to manage wildlife.
They wanted to save thousands of jobs and safeguard hundreds of years of diversity and passion.
The 400,000 marchers were defending a minority and supporting a democracy.
I live in London and i was marching. I respect the values and customs of rural communities and wish that the government would too. I believe that any laws directed at rural people should have their consent, and i hope that the government will now address the real problems of the countrside which are destroying its communities, its culture nad its children's future and not be so blinkered about foxhunting. Open your eyes - this is not all about hunting!!
I joined the liberty and livelyhood march yesterday, the atmosphere was electric, it was fantastic to see the support that the countryside has. I can appreciate that some people saw this march as an opportunity to save hunting but everyone on the march had an issue that was particularly close to their heart whether it was shooting, hunting or farming etc. There are so many issues surrounding the countryside and I was really pleased to see everyone uniting together to provide support. Although I support hunting my reason for marching was for the overall interests of the countryside, just as with everyone else.
Originally posted by clair
'Although I support hunting my reason for marching was for the overall interests of the countryside, just as with everyone else. '
Thats a good point and I think that a lot of people were there.
When it comes to the hunting issue, I think that a lot of it boils down to simple class divisions.
No class divisions have nothing to do with opposing hunting! People oppose hunting because it is a cruel sport pure and simple and what could be more cruel that chasing a fox until it is almost dead from exhaustion and then ripping it apart with hounds! All other cruel sports were banned decades ago such as bear baiting and dog fighting. If anything it isbecause fox hunting is an upper class sport that its followers think they are above everyone else!
I think that the people marching for other rural issues should try to distance themselves from the pro-hunt lobby as they have genuine grievences, the hunters don't they were marching just to defend their own selfish hobby.
Shooting might be. Hunting with hounds is not. Don't even try to start on that. Being chased for miles by a pack of vicious bastards only to be torn to pieces is not a terribly humane way of killing animals. Would you do the same to your dog or cat when it's time to put it down? :rolleyes:
Having been on a few hunts myself I can honestly say from exprience that the fox dies very quickly. If you were to try and shoot a fox, the chances are (even the most accurate shooters will admit this) that the fox will be hit in the leg or similar i.e. a non fatal injury which will lead them to crawl off into a ditch and die slowly and painfully.
I am by no means upper class and neither are many peope who support hunting or country life. That is a very old argument that a complete fallacy.
Do you ride you following a call from a farmer that there is a fox on his land, or are they scheduled rides?
Why does is take a pack of hounds, and several riders to chase a fox?
If hunting is banned would you, like Prince Charles, leave the country and spend all your time skiing instead?