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Mass Anti-War Demonstration in London on September 28th
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
There is a planned massive anti-war demonstration for the 28th of September against the planned war against Iraq! This is to send a clear message to Blair not to attack Iraq as this will only cause more suffering for the Iraqi people which have already suffered terribly because of the Gulf War of 1991 and the sanctions imposed on Iraq.
While Saddam Hussein is a terrible tyrant and a regime change would be a good thing. The consequences of another war to overthrow Saddam Hussein would be catastrophic for the Iraqi people and could destabilies the entire middle east. A regime change would be best brought about by encouraging the Iraqi people themselves to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein!
The demonstration will assemble at The Embankment at 1pm Saturday the 28th of September and go to Hyde Park.
There is also a call for a mass walk out of workplaces and schools on the first day of the attack on Iraq.
Everyone should support this demonstration and help to make it as big as possible by telling friends, workmates, and school mates. Together we can stop this coming war if we get enough people out on the streets to make Blair and the government listen to the people. This will also inspire Americans put pressure on their government to back off from attacking Iraq.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk.
While Saddam Hussein is a terrible tyrant and a regime change would be a good thing. The consequences of another war to overthrow Saddam Hussein would be catastrophic for the Iraqi people and could destabilies the entire middle east. A regime change would be best brought about by encouraging the Iraqi people themselves to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein!
The demonstration will assemble at The Embankment at 1pm Saturday the 28th of September and go to Hyde Park.
There is also a call for a mass walk out of workplaces and schools on the first day of the attack on Iraq.
Everyone should support this demonstration and help to make it as big as possible by telling friends, workmates, and school mates. Together we can stop this coming war if we get enough people out on the streets to make Blair and the government listen to the people. This will also inspire Americans put pressure on their government to back off from attacking Iraq.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk.
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Comments
We could have stopped the last wars such as the Gulf War of 1991 if we had managed to get enough people onto the streets and back up our protests with threats of industrial action by the trade unions should any war take place! The only reason we didn't manage to stop those wars was because the majority of the population were misguided and supported those wars as they thought there was a just cause behind them. Had they have known the enormous suffering those wars caused such as the Gulf War of 1991 which led to 200,000 mostly Iraqi civilian casaulties and the complete devastation of Iraq most would have not supported it.
In 1999 most people supported the attack on Serbia because they thought it was a just cause! The result however was to make the Kosovo refugee crisis 20 times worse as Kosovans also fled the NATO bombing of Kosovo and to devastate Serbian towns and cities and kill and injure thousands and thousands of Serb civilians. Had they known the results of that war most would have opposed it.
Don't be put off the government will be very concerned if half a million people demonstrate and if the trade union movement threatens industrial action if a war takes place! In 1956 for example the government them was forced to back down over planned war with Egypt over Suez! We can make this government back down too!
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Once again, let me ask you, what constitues a "just war" and has such a "just war" ever been fought?
Of course the Iraqi people will suffer if war is waged against them and their country. They will suffer anyway, though, under a tyrant like Saddam Hussein. The country has no democratic tradition; the only way they can possibly attain the kind of representative government you so adore is by having it imposed from outside. Even then it's a long shot -- we're dealing with savages here.
You realize Hussein almost certainly has biological and chemical weapons, and is working on nuclear ones? You realize that he cannot be counted on not to use them? I admit that he has even more incentive to use them if attacked -- so any attack has to be lightning-quick. Such an attack is not impossible. If the Republican Guard, the only units of any consequence in Iraq's army, can be eliminated quickly, there's a good chance the regime will fold in short order.
Now, you do know that Iraq has sizable oil reserves, right? Among the biggest in the world. Western nations simply have to pounce on that -- why? Saudi Arabia can't be counted on to stay stable forever. Morover, Iraqi oil can be brought out overland. No need for supertankers in the Gulf of Oman; overland pipelines through Turkey and into Eastern Europe. It's a good bet that such development can only be good for the economy of each country along the route. Or would you like to suffer the personal consequences of oil at $60 or more per barrel? Want to stay warm in winter? Want to have motorized transport to all those peacenik demonstrations you attend?
September 28th, eh? What's the matter? Didn't it ocur to your planners to chose a much more poigniant date?
Why don't you move to North Korea and live in a workers' paradise?
Have fun....
By the way Steely, will you be going just to protest or will you be on the pull too?
And you could levitate your ass to the moon with the level of flatuence you inflict upon those in your presence... :rolleyes:
As delusional as ever. What is the weather like on whatever planet you reside?
Back onto the subject of stopping the war against Iraq! People must realise that any coming war with Iraq will cause enormous suffering for the Iraqi people like the last Gulf War did of 1991 it will devastate a country already reeling from economic sanctions and kill and maim tens of thousands of Iraqi people!
We can stop this comming war by putting enormous pressure on Blair and the Labour government already within the ruling labour party there are large numbers of MPs who are against an attack on Iraq. Blair doesn't have mass support it is deeply unpopular in Britain and Blair knows it we can easily force him to back down! The demonstration is a day before the Labour conference in Brighton so a mass anti-war demonstration of hundreds of thousands would raise many questions at the Labour conference and force the government to back down!
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Where do you get your statistics from?
This war is all about America dominating the oil rich middle east which it wants to totally control!
The Iraqi people are suffering because of western imposed sanctions as well as because of Saddam Hussein! They don't need another war which will kill tens of thousands and maim tens of thousands more!
Contrary to what you say war always causes suffering, death and destruction! War is of no benefit to mankind you idiot! It is of benefit only to the ruling class of the world in whose interests it is fought! In war people die in the most horrible way by being blown apart by bombs and shot to death and people get maimed for life, war is a crime against humanity!
Iraq was totally devastated during the last Gulf War of 1991 the Iraqi people don't need another war!
America doesn't give a damn about the people of the middle east it supports the brutal Saudi Arabian regime, arms Turkey which has terrorised the Kurdish minority in southeast Turkey driving hundreds of thousands from their homes and destroying thousands of villages and arms Israel which has terrorised the Palestinians for decades!
I SAY DON'T LISTEN TO THE WAR MONGERS JOIN THE MASS ANTI WAR DEMONSTRATION IN LONDON ON SEPTEMBER 28TH
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Where did he say that is doesn't?
I suspect you would have been against the US involvement in WWII....until you realized that your life and way of life were at risk.
I suggest you visit some of the countries that have been aided by the US and Britain waging war. Ask those old enough to remember. You might be surprised.
Are you helping with this ? Why not?
As for communism, it's a pipedream. As Marx wrote it, it'll never happen. It'll always end up being what Stalin, Lenin and Mao imposed on their people. Wake up.
The U.S. did not enter WW II to end the Holocaust, or to make the world a safer place, or to stop fascism. U.S. businesses traded with Hitler and Mussolini up to and even during the war. American bussnessmen like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were strong supporters of Hilters nazi regime! It was also big business men who funded Hitler in the first place!
During World War II the allies could have easily stopped the holocaust by bombing the gas chambers and the railway lines to Aushvitiz but instead they chose to carpet bomb German cities killing millions of civilians! World War II also led to 55 million deaths and 30 million refugees and the destruction of half of Europe!
This coming war with Iraq will cause enormous suffering for the people of Iraq just like the last Gulf War did meanwhile Saddam and his cronies will be safe in deep underground bunkers! Iraq is still suffering from the effects of the last Gulf War and sanctions are hampering rebuilding of the country. In the last Gulf War places like water filteration plants got bombed leading to polluted water that caused water borne diseases that couldn't be treated properly due to sanctions on medical equipment. Sewers were also damaged leading to more health risks!
As for communism there is no reason why it should end up like Stalinist Russia! Communism in Russia degenerated because of many problems faced by the Bolshiviks such as the civil war with the white army which left the country in ruins and that fact that Russia in 1917 was such a backward country. All the countries that since had so called communist revolutions based their regimes on the Stalinist state capitalist model not on the democratic workers model of Karl Marx!
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Or is that not long enough, I forget which.
Anyway, small question - even though I know you never answer any of them - why do you bother coming on here posting this anti-war crap?
You know none of us will ever follow you.
Do you honestly, honestly believe that you have the backing of the majority of people, or that the Govt will ever listen to you?
The day you start living what you preach we may pay attention, but you are a hipocrite of the highest magnitude - living off the benefits of that which you condemn.
So shush now, for the benefit of "the people" who have spoken in several elections. We don't want your kind of mixed up ideological shite. We prefer to live in the real world.
Look at the amount of exclamation marks he uses. He's not a well man, unstable you might even say. And no amount of words will convince him that his thoughts are anything other than correct. Really.
"as of December 1998, the weapons inspectors had destroyed the factories that could be used to produce chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. They are gone.
We backed it up with monitoring and the most stringent controls in history to ensure that Iraq wasn't reconstituting that ability. We could not account for everything. But we do know that the factory where, for example, they made liquid bulk anthrax ceased production. We blew it up in 1996. Liquid bulk anthrax cannot survive for more than three years even under ideal storage conditions. So even if Iraq did hide some from us it is no longer viable.
As of December 1998 we came close to zero level in terms of Iraq's ability to produce or maintain weapons of mass destruction. Biological and chemical weapons must be produced in industrial facilities possessing the highest level of technology. Iraq would have had to procure much of this from abroad to reconstitute facilities.
I know that sanctions are a sieve. But I worked with the best intelligence agencies in the world. If Iraq were to attempt to acquire this equipment they would be detected. Even if they got it and attempted to reconstitute a biological, chemical or nuclear factory, it is detectable". The full speech to the house of commons is here
The last Gulf War of 1991 caused enomous suffering for the Iraqi people during that war Iraq was pounded with 177 million pounds of bombs in the most concentrated aerial bombardment in the history of the world. This led to at least 200,000 mostly Iraqi civilians being killed many more were maimed for life of injured! Depleted uranium missiles, napalm, cluster-bombs, fuel-air bombs, cruise missiles and so-called smart bombs were used.In Amariyah a bomb shelter was bombed killing dozens of Iraqi men, women and children.
A sixty-mile-long column of fleeing Iraqi soldiers and Palestinian civilian families in vehicles on the Kuwait to Basra highway was also pounded ruthlessly with bombs and machine-gun fire killing tens of thousands in a totally needless slaughter!
Depleted uranian from shells used also contaminated large area with radioactive dust and thousands of unexploded cluster bombs were left in Iraq which have continued to kill and injure Iraqi civilians.
Water treatment plants were also damaged by bombing which caused water borne dieases which cannot be treated properly due to sanctions of medical equipment sewers were also damaged causing more health risks, this has been the main cause of the one million deaths due to sanctions on Iraq since 1990 including at least 500,000 children!
The Iraqi people do not need another war which will bring only far more death and destruction and kill and maim tens of thousands more people.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Nah, I know I can't. But I like to remind myself just how irrational his meanderings really are. Just as he will never convince us of anything, I know I will never achieve the same with him.
One day I hope that he will actually realise that he has wasted his life. Achieved nothing, changed nothing, put nothing into society.
I just love his screwed up view of the world, and the fact that he cannot see just how hipocritical he really is.
www.letshavemorewars.org
Yes they do. They love it. It gives them something to do. All that running from bombs is good exercise for them too. They'll thank us in the end, when they starting winning sprint golds at the next olympics.
From a UK perspective we need really big war just now. Have you seen the TV schedule. Talk about boring. It would be really helpful if we could persude the US to only bombs when there isn't any football on, I could then watch it all live on CNN/Skynews.
www.bombthefuckers.org
Secondly any war on Iraq would not be a quick clean easy war it would most likely involve massive bombardment of Iraq like the last Gulf War lasting weeks and causing massive death and destruction.
Thirdly if Iraq does not posses weapons of mass destruction then ask yourself what is the reall reason for this war. It is for the control of an oil rich region by America and the western powers it is not about helping the people of Iraq. Remember it was western powers that armed Saddam Hussein to the teeth during the Iran/Iraq war in the 1980s a war which killed one million people.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Yes. Does it change my view - No. there are other weapons inspectors who have said differently. You also need to consder when he was there, and what the Iraqis we doing to prevent him from doing his job roperly.
There is no such things as a clean and easy war. I don't think I have ever heard it claimed that this would be the first.
Quick on the other hand is a matter of interpretation. The Gulf War, once shooting started, ended pretty quickly.
Actually it covers both aspects. Unless you think Saddam is a great leader of his people. I certainly have no problem with the oil issue. Why do you?
Indeed it was, but it wasn't them who used the weapons was it?
Much as I'd like to bitch about Microsoft, I'm not blaming them for the fact that you use their softward to post this shit.
http://www.whystopwithiraq?.org
The main reason for this war like the last war is for control over the oil regoin of the middle east and to defend the profits of the big mulitnational oil companies that is not a issue worth killing tens of thousands of people for!
Even if Saddam did have weapons of mass destruction it doesn't mean that he intends to use them. Many countries have weapons of mass destruction including nuclear weapons but never use them like Israel for example a country which has caused a hell of a lot of trouble inthe middle east! If attacked however and forced into a corner Saddam would then probably used them so war is extremly dangerous if he does posses them.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
I'd say that was quick. To devastate a country in less that 100 days.
Unless you are oblivious to the lessons of history, you will have noted that most wars last years :rolleyes:
Your point is what?
That the Allies were efficient, that they achieved so much. Surely that is something to celebrate.
Yep, its largely about oil. So?
Er...HE ALREADY HAS!!
As I'm sure that the Kurds would remind you.
www.startwar.org
You are as bad as Saddam Hussein himself! :mad:
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
You're a Communist, right? Explain to me why it is that it is okay for Stalin to kill more of his *own* citizens than Hitler did, but when we go to war to prevent another Stalin, that's bad?
*waits*
Good try, DJP, but it won't work. Steelgate's general defence for any argument based on the horrors of Stalin and the Soviet Union is that they weren't really communists. Then you should get a nice prepared paragraph on how under Steelgatian Communism we'd all dance around happily owning our means of production and generally loving each other until the state dissolves.
*waits for Steelgate's reply*
Fleeing? How about "strategic retreat in order to regroup"...?
Not familiar with combat, are you?
"Needless"...? ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING MY FUCKING ASS OFF!!! Back to the previous question... not too familiar with the reality of combat, are you?
Problem being that in the real world, (Stealgatian) communism leads to (Stalinist) Communism: always has, and - until we all assume the role of ants - always will...