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Knives should be legal to carry in the UK

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
We should have the right arm ourselves similar to the US. The right to defend oneself is probably the most important right you can have, I also kinda support the right to have a gun, I can see why it's a good idea but it has its drawbacks. But we should be allowed knives at least. I used to carry a switch-knife in my teens given to me by my ex, it helped me feel safe. I do know a little kickboxing, but lets face it.. I'm 5ftsomething and I don't weigh that much, I probably don't have much chance against a mugger or rapist that is 6ft something and weight about 15st that is much more aggressive than I am. So a weapon could at least even things out a little more. The idea of slicing his adams apple may make him back off a bit..

I think its terrible that in this nannystate of a country that the idea of carrying a knife is taboo.. look at police PSAs and such, they're all scaremongering that everyone who thinks of carrying a knife must be a hoodie gangbanger scumbag, I don't think that's true. I'm reasonably educated. It's also a myth that it would be used against you, there's absolutely no sources to back that up other than anecdotes where the victim has been a 12 year old trying to think he's cool.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The belief that carrying a knife will make you safe is a myth. Unless you have a size advantage against your attacker the chances of you successfully fending someone off are slim.

    80% of stab victims in this country are stabbed with their own knife. If someone confronts you and you have a knife then your options become fairly limited.
    1.Pull the knife out, it scares them off.
    2.Pull the knife out, they pull out a bigger knife/large blunt object
    3.Pull the knife out, it doesn't scare them, they come towards you anyway. Then what? You either have to stab them or run away.
    4.They are bigger/stronger/pumped up on adrenalin. You try and slash them, they disarm you and stab you. It's surprisingly difficult to incapacitate someone with a knife.
    5.Whilst you're focussing on them with your knife you don't see their mate creep up behind you and smack you over the head with a bat.

    Carrying a concealed weapon is a bad idea, and the belief that in the USA it's ok is a myth too. You aren't allowed to carry concealed firearm in most US states.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The biggest problem with being able to carry a knife legally is that if everyone can carry one then it is no protection, and rather than being beaten up and mugged people will just get stabbed and mugged, like the old woman who swallowed a fly and ends up swallowing a horse all it will do is escalate the situation.
    If you pull a knife on a mugger who has a knife, all you do is turn a mugging into a knife fight.

    Pulling a knife on someone is easy, taking it out and holding it in your hand with intent, but actually stabbing someone takes a lot of balls, I have personally pulled a knife on someone twice, both the same person (my volatile brother) and both times it didn't do anything useful until it as actually used - I gave him a hairline cut on his forearm as he had me by the throat both times - because whenever you pull a knife on someone their first reaction is that you don't have the stones to use it on them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are martial arts you can do to keep yourself safe. You could look in to Krav Maga (that's on my to do list after the Great Eastern Run), or Jitsu, both of which would arm you to defend yourself, regardless of your physical size.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think carrying a knife is just asking for trouble. I see no reason why (unless you work in that kind of trade that requires a knife) someone would need to carry a knife.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unless you know how to use a knife as part of a self defence art form, then WhoWhere is right in saying that you are more than likely going to have it used against you.

    Also, even if you do know how to handle a knife, it is still relatively easy to disarm you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't imagine using a knife on an attacker is as easy as you'd think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I used to carry a small swiss army knife (within legal limits), as it was helpful to have doing the course I was doing (sound engineering - for cutting cables and gaffer tape and such). It almost got me a police caution on 2 occasions, the 3rd I just told them to take it, as it caused too many problems.

    I have been trained to disarm someone with a knife, and even if you are prepared, its easy for the other person to turn the knife on you. It could also act as an attration if others know, to someone whos up for a fight. Also, think about what would happen if it go it the wrong hands? a child going through your bag for instance...

    Have a look at US gun crime/knife crime stats and compare them. There are reasons we don't allow such things to be carried in public, it makes us all safer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It isn't even gun crime that's the issue in the US- look at the number of children who accidentally shoot themselves or someone else using their family's gun.

    Unless you're good at fighting then a knife won't be much use- it escalates the situation. If it scares someone off then standing up for yourself without a knife would usually also scare them off. If it doesn't scare them off then what? Either you have to stab them (and spend 18 months with a court case hanging over you) or they get the knife off you/use their own knife and stab you.

    Most knife crime is carried out between two people who have knives, which goes to show how being tooled up escalates things. It's very rare for an unarmed innocent person to be stabbed on the street or on the bus- hence why it's still reported in the newspapers- and they'd probably still be stabbed even if they also had a knife.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :yes: at above comments.

    Much easier and safer to learn some form of martial art, kickboxing is particularly good as you learn to how to defend yourself without getting close enough to be stabbed. Your leg is longer and stronger than a criminals arm.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    The belief that carrying a knife will make you safe is a myth. Unless you have a size advantage against your attacker the chances of you successfully fending someone off are slim.

    80% of stab victims in this country are stabbed with their own knife.

    Something which may have just been proven with the high profile burglar death...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At least he can't try and do it to anyone else. You reap what you sow and all that. Am I the only one who thinks the family should be kept away from his intended victim's house?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with the posts so far about knives being relatively useless for defending yourself, so the logical conclusion would be to legalise guns for self defence, if you were going to make that argument. Unfortunately, I think they tend to escalate the situation even further than a knife would've.

    But just on a side note, promoting martial arts as an effective method of self defence is often just as much bullshit as promoting knives as self defence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    At least he can't try and do it to anyone else. You reap what you sow and all that. Am I the only one who thinks the family should be kept away from his intended victim's house?

    Depends what you mean by that. Should they be allowed to leave flowers - yes. Should they be a nuisance - no. There's a big difference between the two. One is grief, the other is more sinister. Whatever the reason for his death, the family have lost a loved one and should be allowed to grieve IMHO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    But just on a side note, promoting martial arts as an effective method of self defence is often just as much bullshit as promoting knives as self defence.

    IWS

    Again it depends on your size and relative strength, but you have to remember most people have no idea how to fight. They don't know how to throw a punch or an effective kick and this includes criminals.
    I saw a fight between 2 chaps on the street several weeks ago. One of them threw a punch that missed and then they both ended up grappling on the floor until they got tired, to say it was funny was an understatement.

    Martial arts isn't the be all and end all, but knowing where and how to kick someone in order to break their shin, kneecap or ankle is a useful skill to have if you're ever attacked.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kyra R wrote: »
    We should have the right arm ourselves similar to the US. The right to defend oneself is probably the most important right you can have, I also kinda support the right to have a gun, I can see why it's a good idea but it has its drawbacks. But we should be allowed knives at least. I used to carry a switch-knife in my teens given to me by my ex, it helped me feel safe. I do know a little kickboxing, but lets face it.. I'm 5ftsomething and I don't weigh that much, I probably don't have much chance against a mugger or rapist that is 6ft something and weight about 15st that is much more aggressive than I am. So a weapon could at least even things out a little more. The idea of slicing his adams apple may make him back off a bit..

    I think its terrible that in this nannystate of a country that the idea of carrying a knife is taboo.. look at police PSAs and such, they're all scaremongering that everyone who thinks of carrying a knife must be a hoodie gangbanger scumbag, I don't think that's true. I'm reasonably educated. It's also a myth that it would be used against you, there's absolutely no sources to back that up other than anecdotes where the victim has been a 12 year old trying to think he's cool.

    Thoughts?

    I'm sorry, knives should be legal to carry - this is a wind-up right? There's no way you can be serious right?

    What happens if everyone carried knives? Gang members and chavs would just carry bigger knives.

    And can you imagine pensioners, the elderly and infirm carrying knives? No, neither can I. Making them perfect targets for (in your world, legally) knife-carrying chavs.

    Stupid, stupid idea.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends what you mean by that. Should they be allowed to leave flowers - yes. Should they be a nuisance - no. There's a big difference between the two. One is grief, the other is more sinister. Whatever the reason for his death, the family have lost a loved one and should be allowed to grieve IMHO.

    They can go leave flowers somewhere else. Like in the rubbish tip, where their "loved one" belongs.

    I don't even understand why the police are wasting precious time investigating this death. Scumbag who deserved to get stabbed to death got stabbed to death. The homeowner should get a medal and a letter of thanks from the Queen for ridding the world of one more parasite.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends what you mean by that. Should they be allowed to leave flowers - yes. Should they be a nuisance - no. There's a big difference between the two. One is grief, the other is more sinister. Whatever the reason for his death, the family have lost a loved one and should be allowed to grieve IMHO.

    I think leaving flowers is inappropriate. It's unfair on the victim's (to me, the man who was burgled is the victim) family for this to happen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends what you mean by that. Should they be allowed to leave flowers - yes. Should they be a nuisance - no. There's a big difference between the two. One is grief, the other is more sinister. Whatever the reason for his death, the family have lost a loved one and should be allowed to grieve IMHO.


    But right outside the guy's house? Sorry, it's not on. If flowers turned up outside my house they'd end up in the bin.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,180 Skive's The Limit
    The type of people who generally carry knives are the type of people who don't just use them for self defence. Those that carry knives statistically have a higher chance of becoming a victim of knife crime. Carrying a knife is stupid. If you end up using it you're generally going to end up injured/dead or end up in jail.

    I was stabbed several times during a fight about 4 years ago, and I ended up in hospital for 3 days. I was alright in the end but they guy who stabbed me managed to severe part of his thumb - something I'm quite pleases about. I have no wish to see any more knives being carried about any more than I do guns.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    But right outside the guy's house? Sorry, it's not on. If flowers turned up outside my house they'd end up in the bin.
    Melian wrote: »
    I think leaving flowers is inappropriate. It's unfair on the victim's (to me, the man who was burgled is the victim) family for this to happen.
    They can go leave flowers somewhere else. Like in the rubbish tip, where their "loved one" belongs.

    I don't even understand why the police are wasting precious time investigating this death. Scumbag who deserved to get stabbed to death got stabbed to death. The homeowner should get a medal and a letter of thanks from the Queen for ridding the world of one more parasite.

    I'm happy to be in a minority of one on this issue, even though personally I wouldn't dream of leaving flowers there or by the roadside after an accident.

    However, the thing that each of you seems to have overlooked is that the family have lost a loved one. It doesn't matter that it was through his own actions, I agree with AR in that the guy got what he deserved but, I defy you to argue that this lessens the grief that his family will be feeling. It seems to me that you want to punish his family for his actions and I just cannot subscribe to that point of view. I know damned well that I'd be distraught regardless of how my child died.

    As I said, if it's grief then I don't have a problem. If it's intimidation, then I do. I don't see this as any different to the people who leave flowers at the side of the road after a fatality.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Leaving flowers by a roadside for example, is different - it's not someone elses home.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Leaving flowers by a roadside for example, is different - it's not someone elses home.

    Are they leaving them in the garden then, or outside on the path?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Back onto topic, I wonder what the OP thinks of our replies......?

    Although I have to say with only 1 post to her name which was the above, do you think she perhaps had an agenda? :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    While not taking a stance whether it should be allowed in Britain particularly, I'd argue that knives shouldn't be allowed anywhere. Wearing a knife will very often escalate the situation, and if you don't know how to handle a knife, you may easily be disarmed and even stabbed with your own knife if you meet the wrong person or your opponent will pull his/her own knife.

    I'd take up martial arts classes instead, and I don't agree that martial arts is equally useless. "Proper" martial arts is so much more than knowing how to break your opponents shin or arm, it's even more important how to know how to evade kicks or strikes and to learn how to use the opponents force against himself. Even more important it's about learning about not to be acting like a superhero and about situation awareness. You may have a chance against a single opponent, but even trained martial arts people recognize that they usually don't stand a chance if more than one opponent assault you. These are situations where most people are better of getting out of the opponents grip and then evade the scene. For example, this is what modern Krav Maga teachers will learn you (By utilizing the civilian part of Krav Maga, which should not be confused with the military components).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I set off my rape alarm, drop my trousers and try to soil myself as quickly as possible whenever I feel threatened. It's the best defence ever: I've not been mugged yet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I set off my rape alarm, drop my trousers and try to soil myself as quickly as possible whenever I feel threatened. It's the best defence ever: I've not been mugged yet.

    Well, I just might be your worst enemy. I am a deaf scatophile and you are a cutiepie.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    Well, I just might be your worst enemy. I am a deaf scatophile and you are a cutiepie.

    :D

    Can you imagine that?! I start excreting faeces and it just works you up into more of a sexual frenzy!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :D

    Can you imagine that?! I start excreting faeces and it just works you up into more of a sexual frenzy!

    "Sir, back off, I will poop my pants and I mean it!!!" *pffgghhpffffffttzzzz*

    http://i.imgur.com/9uddf.gif
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sorry, knives should be legal to carry - this is a wind-up right? There's no way you can be serious right?

    What happens if everyone carried knives? Gang members and chavs would just carry bigger knives.

    And can you imagine pensioners, the elderly and infirm carrying knives? No, neither can I. Making them perfect targets for (in your world, legally) knife-carrying chavs.

    Stupid, stupid idea.

    People seem to have the impression that a bigger knife is better? Pretty sure size isn't too much of an issue, if your stabbed in the jugular your screwed.

    I carried a knife when I was younger, gave me the faulse allure of safety. I kidded myself that having the option to use the knife would be better than finding myself in a sticky situation with no options.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It isn't even gun crime that's the issue in the US- look at the number of children who accidentally shoot themselves or someone else using their family's gun.

    Didn't you bring up this exact point in the last gun control argument and Jessi broke it down? Or was that someone else?

    I don't really feel like conducting the same argument again. You all know my views on the subject. It's pretty much the exact same argument. But off remark: Krav Maga is the bee's knees. I wish there was a gym nearby that had it.
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