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London Slutwalk
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
in General Chat
I didn't know where to put this, so feel free to move it, mods 
.
The whole "Slutwalk" concept came to my attention on another forum I'm on, and I wondered (but was not motivated enough to do a Google, oops!) if there was one in the UK/London. Turns out there is!
Since it's right after payday, I will *definitely* be going to this. Who else wants to come with me?
ETA: The date has been changed from June 4th to June 11th (a week later)
.The whole "Slutwalk" concept came to my attention on another forum I'm on, and I wondered (but was not motivated enough to do a Google, oops!) if there was one in the UK/London. Turns out there is!
Since it's right after payday, I will *definitely* be going to this. Who else wants to come with me?
ETA: The date has been changed from June 4th to June 11th (a week later)
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Comments
Is 'Slut' really a word feminists want to reclaim?
For and against, both from Guardian Comment is Free.
I hope it's OK to add this to your thread, Franki, it seems inevitable to go this way!
I am inclined to go, despite the rows, because it's essentially a march against sexual violence and that's something I want to support.
That's why I'm going.
Also because the word "slut" bugs the fuck out of me. OHNOES SEXUAL PROMISCUITY HOW TERRIBLE THAT A WOMAN MAKES HER OWN DECISIONS!!!!!!!
Also feel free to start a debate about it, I just wanted to see if anyone wanted to come along with me
I also despise such words, and I despise the concept that someone can be defined based upon their sexual activities. You can understand some behavioural aspects of a person, maybe, but you cannot define a person's worth. Derrogatory labels like these are used through fear and insecurity in order to weaken others where it is perceived they are strong. It's the coward's mentality, to bring someone down rather than rise up to meet them.
Why?
I think it should be, to be honest. I think women should be free to enjoy sex as often as they want with as many people as they want, as long as they are genuinely consenting and genuinely safe and happy with it all. Reclaiming it means it can't be used as an insult by other people, that's a good thing.
Women might not want to be sexually promiscuous themselves, but they should be demanding the right to not be called a slut and a slag if they choose to be promiscuous. And they certainly shouldn't be called a slag because they dared to go out wearing a nice short dress and stilettos.
I agree and I think the 'against' article I quoted from the Guardian is self-defeating. That the word 'slut' can ruin a girl's life is precisely why it needs to be reclaimed. I feel the same way about works referring to the gay community. The more hurtful they can be to me, the more I am inclined to take it for myself.
I'm not someone most people would call a slut (grand total of two sexual partners) but I do dress how the fuck I want (and will continue to do so) and have learned that I am as likely to be harassed in Doc Marten boots and baggy jeans as I am in a denim miniskirt with tights and ridiculous heels.
Why does it seem that it's ok for men to sleep around and not women? I know you've not said that it's ok; but there are people who seem to think that. Well, it seems that men get "congratulated" on it and women get called sluts.
I'm thinking a bit on the fly here, but why should reclaiming a word be desirable? The notion that we should render certain words impotent doesn't immediately strike me as good one. It's ideas that need changing, not words. And leaving the barb in a word makes sense if only to better identify its users for the kind of people they are.
Indeed. This is my complaint of retard/gay/similar. They get used so often that people forget that some people are GENUINELY OFFENDED by it, even though the person may not be meaning offense.
I don't want to reclaim the word, persay, as remove the sentiment behind it that sexual promiscuity = bad.
That's exactly what reclaiming is about to me. What does it mean to you?
Well, reclaiming that word is fine. But we can reclaim it all we like, and there are still going to be people that think sexual promiscuity makes someone a bad person, and they'll think of new words. Just like there are still homophobes and racists even though "fag" and "nigger" are supposedly being reclaimed.
I agree, and I would also suggest that the word 'slut' has already been as much reclaimed as those other words, or at least that has been attempted. I know of girls who like to be called a slut in the bedroom as part of consensual play. It's not something I'd ever consider using in the bedroom but then I'm quite vanilla.
I don't think that such words will ever truly lose the negativity. My understanding of this march was that it was less about the word and more about the implications of the statement in which that word was used, i.e. that women shouldn't dress in a certain way.
Understood. Tbh, reclaiming something does tend to be limited to activism and use within the community. Like, I might use the word 'dyke' about myself at Pride and I'm cool with my friends doing it but when a stranger yells at me that's never going to be ok and I never meant that it would be.
Given the right context most words used to genuinely denigrate stir in me that base empathy, anger or hurt reserved for such occasions. But it's the sentiment, rather than the word itself, I think, that does that. The word is the medium for the communication and it's what the medium carries that registers emotionally. I don't think words, as such, offend me. And I always feel embarrassed for a person when they pull others up on words they deem as offensive or unacceptable - certainly if it's just to reprimand them on the use of the word - though this may be linked in with my general disregard of people who claim offense. Trying to alter or control thought through the curtailment of language feels a lot like having hold of the wrong end of the stick.
Which i'm really upset about because i really want to go
Especially as my mum used to call me a slut the whole time - though she thought it meant untidy / lazy...
I don't agree. You can't use a word to wound if it doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
I agree with the telling men not to rape is more of an issue than telling women to avoid being raped, but I do think theres a lot to be said for trying to avoid attack and trying not to draw attention from predatory type people as well, and assuming all men will just respect you and your rights, just because they should. Humans are just animals, albeit social ones, and you are NEVER going to eliminate evil bastards/sociopaths/psychopaths/predators/wankers, no matter how much you educate people or tell everyone its wrong.
If some women think dressing sluttily is empowering, then theyve got a warped idea of power, and are mistaking sexuality for power and if you think youre going to get respect from people and be more powerful by showing as much skin and underwear as possible then i think youre just buying into another patriarchal patronising culture of GIRL POWER. YOU ARE MORE POWERFUL IN A PUSH UP BRA AND MINISKIRT - HONESTLY, GO PUT ONE ON.
I have no problem with people dressing how they like or sleeping with who they like, but i dont identify with it personally and have no interest in reclaiming the word
The curtailment of language seems like one of the most futile, vaguely sinister, and ultimately Orwellian tasks to attempt. If I'm calling someone a 'slut' it's just shorthand for a sentiment I want to convey. Even if it were possible to consciously remove a word completely from the language, or at least redefine it to the extent where it was rendered innocuous, the sentiment of deigning someone's sexual promiscuity as negative, still exists: I could use an innumerable number of words, or combination of words, to express the same opinion of someone. And as I said previously, I think there are benefits to maintaining the barb of a word. Being able to use the word in a literary sense, for example, or easy identification of someone's mindset.
I thought that this whole movement was about something bigger than what the word means.
Isn't it about the right to dress provocatively, and behave in a promiscuous manner, without it being used in defence of rape.
Pretty much.
FYI, the date has now been changed to June 11th.
I also like the point that Julie Bindel made, that the people who think women should dress demurely to avoid rape have a much worse view of men than "man hating feminists" like Bindel have. I don't for one second believe that men "can't help themselves" and I'm actually quite offended by the people who think that a bit of cleavage means that a man loses all his self-control. Men know fine well what the difference between "yes" and "no" is, they just know that if they play the "she was a slut!" card they'll get away with raping someone.
That said, I do have to agree with Suzy. If you drink so much that you cannot remember who or where you are, you're leaving yourself very vulnerable to attack because you won't be able to defend yourself. It's the same if you go back to someone's house alone. Even if you manage to get justice it doesn't undo the effects of the sexual violence, people do need to be sensible about where they go and how much they drink. Telling men not to rape will only work to an extent; men who get off on the power of being a rapist will get off on that power regardless of how many adverts get put out. Being drunk and going home with a man doesn't give you any blame at all, definitely not, but it does put you in a vulnerable position.
+1
Someone said on twitter yesterday "I don't know what's more offensive; the narrative that women want to be raped or the one that says men have no self-control.".
Will there be plenty of fit women there or will they just be feminists?
Feminists I would imagine. They should be at home in the kitchen :d