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America / Britain
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
No this isn't another abusive message 
Its more of an appreciation thread :eek: I for one seem to of been posting alot of abuse recently and its all been getting a little nasty 
I guess its a love/hate relationship, lets face it neither the American or British public are the arse licking types and neither are willing to back down. But its also perhaps true to say neither country has a greater friend in the world when times dictate unity is neccessary. I just don't want to project this anti-American stance, I like America and Americans, our 'relationship' gives us both a certain stabilty in the world.
I won't go on for fear of sounding like a wet wednesday morning, but its worth remembering whilst we sit firing abuse back and forth our forces are standing shoulder to shoulder around the world fighting the same cause, its worth remembering how quick our country gave virtually unconditional support after september 11th and continue to do so and the fact you guys give me hope that we won't end up relying on those bloody europeans for ever more.
So thats as close as your going to get to an apology for certain comments from myself
I still don't want your bloody guns though
Its more of an appreciation thread :eek: I for one seem to of been posting alot of abuse recently and its all been getting a little nasty I guess its a love/hate relationship, lets face it neither the American or British public are the arse licking types and neither are willing to back down. But its also perhaps true to say neither country has a greater friend in the world when times dictate unity is neccessary. I just don't want to project this anti-American stance, I like America and Americans, our 'relationship' gives us both a certain stabilty in the world.I won't go on for fear of sounding like a wet wednesday morning, but its worth remembering whilst we sit firing abuse back and forth our forces are standing shoulder to shoulder around the world fighting the same cause, its worth remembering how quick our country gave virtually unconditional support after september 11th and continue to do so and the fact you guys give me hope that we won't end up relying on those bloody europeans for ever more.
So thats as close as your going to get to an apology for certain comments from myself
I still don't want your bloody guns though
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Comments
My guns are not "bloody"... they get cleaned after every using...
And the only way that you would get them is to take them from me, and that might prove a bit more difficult than you had anticipated... :rolleyes: As in > you might get to experience the dirt nap.
The balance is accepted, and appreciated.
I will also apologize for some of the remarks I made. Apology accepted.
Im with Thanatos on the bloody gun issue. It would be very damaging to our guns to leave the blood on them, maybe thats why guns dont work out in your county.
You have to properly care for them.:p
America and Britain are close in many ways. They are close enough to agree on and work together on many important issues. When they do so they do so with no more friction between them than the normal friction between their own constituent parts. Because they share many of the same interests they have an interest in working together -- and they do.
There is also a certain separation between the two countries. In many ways each provides a useful counterpoint to the other, pointing out the flaws in the other's plans, policies and thought processes. This distance also allows the two countries to be (rightly) seen as separate entities: the UK is not state number 51.
After September 11 Britain arguably served as America's go-between in dealing with the rest of the world and trying to build what we now sometimes call The Coalition. To call Britain a "go-between" is not to demean her role -- it was a very essential one. Could America, wounded and enraged, still not in the good books of many Arab states, have done all that diplomacy for herself? Britain's closeness allowed her to work as part of the American effort; her distance allowed her to be seen as being separate from America so that her diplomats were not simply ignored.
For myself, I think that the special relationship manifests itself even on these boards. Our two countries (and their citizens) are close enough to care about each other, and to talk to one another frankly and openly. Our distance helps each side see the other's flaws -- because we all have to admit that neither country is perfect in its way of doing things. Sadly, both the British and the Americans are strong and proud peoples, and we are sometimes not receptive to alien ideas. But it is our closeness that allows the discourse, even its raised volume. We sometimes forget that, I think.
Some historians have called this phenomenon the best of the many effects of British imperialism. There is between Britan and many of her former colonies -- and especially the large ones, later the dominions, such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand -- a certain connection. Writers at the turn of last century, when Australia gained her independence, likened it to the connection between a parent and children who have now flown the nest: independence with closeness. In this respect America too is a former colony, and I think we see much the same relationship, although this one has a character all of its own.
To paraphrase John Quincy Adams, 6th President of the USA: "May our countries be succcessful, but whether successful or otherwise, always friends."
(Even if friends do have the occasional slanging match.
S'cuse me, SIR!
That is pronounced OO-RAH!
When the chips are down and war looms in the uncertain times of today, I would rather have these people on our side than the bloody Europeans, who havn’t got the balls for a good fight anyway.
Paul
Because at the end of the day we are essentially the same peoples.
Britain is the mother country, and I believe there will always be a special connection between us and our former colonies. I don't think it is a coincidence that Britain and her former colonies are the most powerful nations in the world. Could it be to do with the nature of the people who live in them perhaps?
The power of those nations stems primarily from geograhical convenience and a lot of luck. World War One spelt the death of the Central and Eastern European Empires, but Britain, in both wars, survived, as an island, without the infrastructural damage suffered on the continent. America got away practically scot free in both wars, and indeed had its economy boosted by the increase in production.
Although some would argue that we're not really amongst the most powerful nations any more. Germany and Japan are, ironically after their defeat in WW2, stronger than us economically, and if you're looking at military strength then we're vastly inferior to Russia (well, in ability to indiscriminately destroy continent-sized areas of land).
America is the strongest both economically and militarily, and although a former colony, periodic influxes of immigrants have rendered it a complete polyglot; you cannot say that the "average" American is descended from English settlers.
Security? Surely not, since our present main security threats come from the fact we support America and her wars, in the form of terrorism.
Economic advantages? Yes, we trade with the US, bigtime, but recent events such as Bush's steel tarrifs show us that when it comes to the crunch the Americans are out purely for self interest- not even beliving in the strength of pure capitalism even though they espouse it so.
Culture? :rolleyes:
Any others?
We are going to get attacked sooner or later, and we get no benefit for supporting the wars which anyway cost thousands of innocent lives. Break with America.
Hmmm... let us see, now...
My forebears were indentured Prussians who were brought over to fight against the colonials... seems they got outta them funky coats, changed sides, and helped punt the arrogant "sovereigns" out of the country...
Lots of "empathy" there...
Then there was the Cherokee side...
More empathy...
Lastly, the Australian side. Seems that they got to Australia courtesy of the "good" king...
Most definitely an affinity for English there...
Now... THAT said...
Perhaps America should have broken you YOUR lot 65 years ago?
Should you extract that butt-plug you grow on your neck, you might realize that there are mutual benefits to the association between these two nations, and you not saluting a "SIEG HEIL" to the Third Reich every morning is a start... :rolleyes:
Are you ignorant of history, stupid, or simply totally consumed by your self-serving anal/cranial inversion? Perhaps it would be better to allie yourselves to the French? :eek:
Er....have you ever considered that we support the US because their ideals match ours?
Have you contemplated on the Irish Terrorists who attack us, but couldn't give a shit about the US?
Whereas the europeans welcome our trade with open arms, don't they?
Which is the only country to maintain a total ban on UK beef imports?
We are going to get attacked sooner of later because we believe in democracy. I know that is a tough concept for an ingnorant twat like yourself, but hey its not my fault that you are [apparently] a moron.
As for getting nothing out of war, might I point out that most of europe would be under the control of the Nazi Party now, if it wasn't for war. Including the UK. Guess you'd find it hard to express political beliefs then, would you?
You would be refering to your soccer hooligans??? :rolleyes:
Damn... this "co-inq-a-dink" be happening too often for comfort! :eek:
So here's ta YEW, MoK:
{but I'll take mine cold, if you please}
How suprising, when asked for the benefits to us NOW of supporting America's wars around the globe, an American goes back to "we saved your ass in WW2" :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What would be wrong with an anglo-French axis?
Hundreds of other countries around the globe's ideals match those of the UK. We don't support their wars.
I never mentioned Europe, I was discussing our special relationship with America.
Were the September 11th attacks about democracy/freedom? So we am told, every day, by Blair and Bush. Bin Laden says he is at war with America because of their military bases in "his" "holy land," because of UN (but US led) sanctions on Iraq, and becuase US support for Israel in her (percieved by him) oppression of Palestinians.
Insults the way to go?
And back to WW2.....
Again, thats not what I said. I'm perfectly sympathetic to you if you don't want "our" culture, if thats what "soccer holigans" are.
Let's see now...
As best I can recall (not having benefitted from your experience in fictional and editted history), US forces were in Saudi because of that nation's fear of being over-run by Saddam Hussein... :rolleyes: You miss that little factoid, just like your hero bin Laden?
Duplicitous behavior your "strong suit"? Or just ignorant of history, even relatively recent?
Hundreds, eh?
Care to list a few? Perhaps even only a mere ONE hundred?
Last count there was something like 176 nations. Many of them are in the Middle East/Africa/Asia.
How many of them share our ideologies....hmm.
As for an Anglo-French axis, we've already had one of those. The French ducked out of it.
If you post something which is moronic and ignorant, I'm going to say that you are an ignorant moron.
If you ignore the recent conflicts in which we have been involved. Kuwait, Bosnia, Sierra Leone. You could also look to UK involvement in Malaysia and Oman.
and I was giving a comparison. You picked on one aspect of our relatioship with the US - Steel. I pointed out that Europe (who is supposed to be our closest partner) includes countries who still embargo our trade.
Isn't Israel democratic then? I think Thanatos covered the other aspect.
OBL has never sought to use democratic means to resolve his grievences, isnstead believing that terrorism is his answer. I'd say that was an attack on democracy - using force to resolve an issue. Especially when it is your first option.
So look back at what YOU said - "We are going to get attacked sooner or later, and we get no benefit for supporting the wars which anyway cost thousands of innocent lives."
WW2 did just that, we benefitted from it.
If you don't like the WW2 example then look at Kuwait, the Falklands, Kosovo...
Well you've got a funny little way of twisting words haven't you?
I never commented on whether or not Bin Laden was justified in "going to war with the US" over US military bases in Saudi Arabia. I simply said that was one of his demands from the US which he hopes terrorism will acheive.
But since you didn't bother to counter my argument that democracy isn't the reason Osama Bin Laden attacked the US, I'll assume you have retracted your original statement.
Well, ok, but apparently I can report you to a modertator for doing that. :eek:
Hardly a roll call of the world's problems in terms of fighting for democracy :rolleyes:
Well done.
YEs, it is democratic (although that could be argued agaisnt), but thats not the reason Bin Laden wants to curtial/remove it. The reason OBL wants to do that is because hje percieves that Israel oppresses Palestinians.
Kindof like saying...."oh, but Osama Bin Laden hates Israel? well, Israel has the letter "I" in its name, therefore hes anti-"I".
Its questionable to what extent Osama Bin Laden and men like him CAN use democracy to resolve the issue. Where specifically can he vote for the Palestinians to be given their own state?
Which isn't to say that terrorism is justified. But it doesn't necessarily mean hes at heart anti-democratic. The IRA believe in a democratic united Ireland. The Red Brigades, in Italy, wanted the most comprehensive democracy ever known in history.
Does the fact that George W Bush has used war in Afghanistan, and possibly will in Iraq, mean he is anti democratic?
WW2 was 50 years ago. I'm asking for the benefits now.
Kuwait? Did we gain from that? The US didn't fight in the Falklands. How did we gain from Kosovo?
:eek: :eek:
Ok maybe hundreds isn't the word i was looking for....got a little carried away there
THAT? Would be the norm, wouldn't it?
I would think that Saddam Hussein being prevented from sufficiently looting Kuwait to purchase both nuclear weapons and the delivery systems to get them to your little island would be of some small value to you... :rolleyes:
"DADDIE?!?!? That mean old Man of Kent is telling the TRUTH about me!"
You "assume" very well, just about anything and everything. Relating to reality? Is another issue.
And I have retracted NOTHING!
Never have, and never will. If I say it or print it, it is what I meant.
You have much to learn, lambchop... and are much too boorish a subject for me to teach it all to... :rolleyes:
You comprehend very little of what you post.
Educate yourself beyond your inane little world, if you expect to engage adults in conversation...
Yeah, all those wonderful traditions like presumption of innocence until proof of guilt is established in a court of law. Hell yes hundreds of countries share that viewpoint with us -- NOT! And such enlightened ideas as severance of thieves' hands, stoning, rule by religious decree and fiat. We here in the UK love those -- NOT!
The USA and UK have their differences but they are inconsequential next to the HUGE GULF of cultural differences that lie between us and most of the rest of the world, with particular emphasis on Africa and South-East Asia. Their thought processes are simply alien. The mental outlook of Brits and Americans is so similar that English Common Law has standing in American courts.
Why do we have international relationships at all? Because no country save a massive superpower (the USA if it came to it, Rome at her peak) can stand alone. Why do we have a special relationship with America? Because they are closest to us when it counts!
Anyone remember last summer, when Bush declared Mexico America's closest ally? The mistake of a new President -- mistaking geographical proximity for ideological closeness. America and Britain have proved in blood that, when it really counts, they stand for the same things. Germany, Italy and Japan know this. No doubt others will too, in time.
You will find that we have better ways of dealing with trolls on these boards. The mods need use their sticks only rarely. And if you see that a poster has a post tally of four figures (anyone hit the big 10K yet?) you can bet that (s)he isn't a troll, 'cause 9S)he'd have been gone long ago.
You will find several merciless debaters here. They will shoot faulty arguments and opinions down in flames without hesitation. This is done without mercy... and without hard feeling.
Kuwait: So, we didn't gain from Saddam not rolling onwards into Saudi Arabia and thereby getting a choke-hold on the world's oil supply? Look at your nearest busy road and see one of the benefits of the Gulf War.
Falklands: No, the US simply supplied a lot of materiél. You know, those super-duper Sidewinder air-to-air missiles? Or did you think that the Task Force stopped at Ascension Island so the crews could top up their tans?
Kosovo: How did we gain? Ask they Kosovars how they gained.