Piracy snooping

Former Member

I have a question about the recent revelations in the media in regards to our service providors passing on information to legal firms of what we download.

If a music file is downloaded through a p2p network straight onto an external hard drive. Is it still traceable, out of interest

Do they have a paper trail with what we download at the isp head office?

As you can tell, ive downloaded the odd song or two!

Former Member

It doesnt matter if it has gone onto an external or an internal hard drive, the records that these companies have, show that your IP address downloaded the file.

Most if not all ISP's in the UK are required by law to hold onto data for a certain period of time if I understand correctly. Its likely that in most countries that ISP's will keep logs of data.

Also, companies passing information onto legal firms is nothing new.

Former Member

It's still traceable.

What happens is:

1. Record company enforcement agencies plant music files around the net, offering to let you download them through a torrent service or whatever.
2. You download, connect via your IP, get the file
3. The company records and logs your IP, and gets a court order for your ISP to tell them the name and address of the person who was using that IP
4. The company sends you a letter blackmailing you (normally to the tune of £500 or something), saying they will take you to court unless you settle

I don't think they bother to take people to court though, because it's not a sure thing that they'd get any money - so it's just easier to mass extort.

Former Member

So if its not an actual real file, is it not a bit of a dodgy bit of ground, considering whilst the intent might have been there, no copywrite infringement has actually taken place?

Former Member

It's not copyright infringement they will be sueing you for, it will be theft. They only sue when it's BIG deals, not single files here and there. Face is, no laws should be passed allowing this practice.

Former Member

If the file is freely available due to the record companies directly, and doesnt actually contain anything (fake file etc) then I dont understand how it is theft

Former Member

It is a real file, it's basically a bait.

It's copyright theft because you are stealing the right of the owner of the works to copy that work (by using services like torrents you automatically upload as well).

You probably wont get done, but some agencies have been known to be indiscriminate about it.

Former Member

ShyBoy wrote: »

It is a real file, it's basically a bait.

It's copyright theft because you are stealing the right of the owner of the works to copy that work (by using services like torrents you automatically upload as well).

You probably wont get done, but some agencies have been known to be indiscriminate about it.

I wonder if anyone in america has counter sued them for making illegally available copywrite goods?

Former Member

There is that argument to be made that if they didnt make the file available, then all the people they catch in the "bait" wouldnt have downloaded the file, and therefore no crime would have been committed had the company not behaved in the same way? Its almost like a pandoras box issue.

Former Member

They do this every day with car theives, peadophiles etc, it's nothing new. But should it happen? After all, without crime police offices lose their jobs. So things like this would keep them in jobs and meet targets. (Sounds farfetched but logical.)

Former Member

It isn't at that simple, imagine how ridiculously enormous a list all files downloaded by every one of the ISP's customers would be

The ISP's avoid being drawn in to enforcing copyright in their network like the plague because it is not only expensive but also extremely difficult to monitor their network for copyright infringement, and nearly always results in bad publicity.

An IP address does not identify an individual customer either, ISP's do not have enough addresses for each customer to have their own IP address. Network Address Translation allows for a couple of hundred customers to use the same Internet facing IP address, whilst themselves being assigned private IP addresses within the ISP's network.

Former Member

adogwithsunglasses wrote: »

An IP address does not identify an individual customer either, ISP's do not have enough addresses for each customer to have their own IP address. Network Address Translation allows for a couple of hundred customers to use the same Internet facing IP address, whilst themselves being assigned private IP addresses within the ISP's network.

However ISP's will have logs that will be able to tell dates/times and other information that would be able to identify who in particular was using a certain IP address.

Former Member

The other issue is shared houses / bedsits. I once lived in a 7-person house and we are all on a network. The ISP would have seen all of us as one IP addy.