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Enhanced CRB checks/Mental Health?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Hi, I'm not sure if I'm asking in the right place but I'm wondering if detention under Section 136 of the Mental Health Act by Police is likely to show up on enhanced CRB checks or not? Additionally, do other sections appear on enhanced CRB checks?
The reason I ask is because I have been detained by Police three times on this Section; once when I was 17, the second time at 18 and the most recent was about six months ago. I know it sounds quite bad, but I suffer from Bipolar Disorder and when I'm not stabilised, I go straight to the depths of hell in terms of depression and also "crazy" when I'm manic, although that ain't never caused problems for me in terms of this. Two of those detentions were for being suicidal in a public place and the third was because I broke down once and went completely numb once and left myself vulnerable outside a pub. I've also been kept in a psychiatric ward for two weeks on a Section 2. Besides my 136's, I've had no other involvement with the Police. I've never been arrested for a crime, warned, ASBO'd, caution'd whatever. So I don't have a criminal record at all, also I was never ever violent, abusive or a risk to anyone else. Just the first two times I resisted getting handcuffed and once had to be restrained by four coppers. lol. I was trying to get away though.
I know they don't turn up on standard/normal CRB checks because it's not a criminal record, but I know that it's 'police intelligence' and if they feel it's relevent they can release it for the purposes of an enhanced CRB check for roles that require close contact with vulnerable adults or kids. I'm wanting to go into Pharmacy, which requires an enhanced CRB check, so yeah.
How likely is this to show up? Any advice from anyone?
Much appreciate.
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The reason I ask is because I have been detained by Police three times on this Section; once when I was 17, the second time at 18 and the most recent was about six months ago. I know it sounds quite bad, but I suffer from Bipolar Disorder and when I'm not stabilised, I go straight to the depths of hell in terms of depression and also "crazy" when I'm manic, although that ain't never caused problems for me in terms of this. Two of those detentions were for being suicidal in a public place and the third was because I broke down once and went completely numb once and left myself vulnerable outside a pub. I've also been kept in a psychiatric ward for two weeks on a Section 2. Besides my 136's, I've had no other involvement with the Police. I've never been arrested for a crime, warned, ASBO'd, caution'd whatever. So I don't have a criminal record at all, also I was never ever violent, abusive or a risk to anyone else. Just the first two times I resisted getting handcuffed and once had to be restrained by four coppers. lol. I was trying to get away though.
I know they don't turn up on standard/normal CRB checks because it's not a criminal record, but I know that it's 'police intelligence' and if they feel it's relevent they can release it for the purposes of an enhanced CRB check for roles that require close contact with vulnerable adults or kids. I'm wanting to go into Pharmacy, which requires an enhanced CRB check, so yeah.
How likely is this to show up? Any advice from anyone?
Much appreciate.
:thumb:
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Comments
ETA: It was an enhanced one
Erm what :eek2: ?
Oh and - he/she has already said that they are wanting to go into pharmacy.
Im confused it sounds like the OP has been suicidal twice, and resisting arrest, and now wanting to pass checks? I'm all for employment, however there would be some cases where I dont believe it would be sensible for someone who has sectioned a number of times.
I was never arrested, so technically I've never 'resisted arrest'. And if I was I would've been charged with Obstruction of a Constable in his/her duty, which I wasn't. I was unstable at the time, so I like to think some Police Officers have common sense, seeing as I wasn't a criminal trying to run away to avoid getting into trouble, I was freakin' scared and distressed. I'm fully willing to disclose my sections to potential employers, and I'm stabilised now on meds, just had to do some swapping and changing to get the right ones.
Oh and suicidal doesn't by anymeans equate to homicidal, by the way. Your attitude towards mental health would be funny if it wasn't somewhat offensive. Mental illness =/= Criminality
The point stands though, there are some jobs which are unsuitable for people who have been suicidal in the past, not just for the safety of others if you cant carry out your work properly, or even for yourself.
These are things with a CRB check wont disclose, you have cleared up a lot of things with your subsequent posts, which I was not aware of at the time.
All im trying to say is that I'd be a bit annoyed if someone was in charge of my care or safety, and couldnt carry out their job properly because of previous mental issues, which caused me or themselves harm.
Now thats why I asked questions rather than going mental health = criminality, which I never have. Im well aware that suicidal doesnt = homicial, I never said that anyone with suicidal tendencies would harm someone else by their actions, rather potentially their lack of action if they harmed themselves and couldnt carry out their job.
Well I guess that makes me ruled off your list! Better send me your picture so I ensure I never come anywhere near you
On a more serious note... I don't understand.... previous mental health issues doesn't equal current mental health issues + dangerous. Why would a previous health condition make any difference?
Never Forever - I wasn't ever sectioned so don't really know the ins and outs on it showing up on your CRB check, but I just wanted to say... All the best with things
Mental illnesses can be treated and in some cases even cured. It isn't right to discriminate on "previous" mental health issues. I am fully willing to disclose my past on occupation health and to potential employers and prove I wouldn't pose a risk to my work or others or myself. I've held a few jobs before, including a relatively highly stressful job working in an office, and I never once cracked under the pressure or took massive risks (surprisingly). Both my suicide attempts were when I was in sixth form, not working.
And sorry, but it did seem like you were implying that mental health + involvement with police = nutjob criminal not safe to work with when you said I 'resisted arrest' and such. At least we have that cleared up.
I was really asking how likely it would be to show up in an enhanced check seeing as I've never had one before, really.
I would be worried if someone as thick as you had any role in my life, or over my safety etc. really worried.
So someone who could potentially have a relapse should always be allowed to be put in a position of making a life and death decision, or taking an action with the intention of saving or taking life?
Maybe not always, but pretty much... yeah.
I hate to be the barer of bad news but it will come up on your CRB and in reality it will make getting a job which requires an enhanced CRB difficult, if not impossible.
I know this because it happened to me - I was detained under section 139 (apparently a section which basically means you were doing nothing which the police can arrest you for - its a detention of 'good will') I also took an overdose and the police were called to my house by the paramedics so they could get in, during this time I was unwell I made the mistake of driking too much and fell unconscious - I didn't realise the effect of alcohol plus my medication. I have never committed a crime, was not rude to the police, infact apart from being extremely poorly at the time i had done nothing wrong. All of these incidences have come up on my enhanced CRB.
As a result I have lost my place on my university course (I was training to be a doctor) lost my job working for the hospital - despite the fact I had been told I was doing a great job, and have also been told that no manager would ever employ me with that CRB. I have now also lost my flat as I cannot pay my rent and have been forced to live in a hostel.
I have a dispute in to the CRB, but have been told it is likely to be unsuccesful. The only hope I have is a government policy change (which may happen with the current government). From my experience it really isn't worth the risk working in a profession which requires an enhanced CRB. I shall fight my case as I have nothing to use - especially as on the CRB website they say there policies should not be discriminatory against disability - I would say including health issues on a CRB, where you are obviously no threat to anybody, is discriminatory to mental health - I would be interested to hear if anybody has had a physical health issue, for example fainting on the street, included on a CRB?
Sorry again for being such a misery. I hope things are much better for you now.
xxxxx
Seems like you are in a tricky situation with this enhanced CRB check that you need.
I think Garfield29's post will be a great help to you as it describes their first hand experience of this situation.
I'd just like to direct you to a few web pages though, where you can seek further information regarding this issue.
The CRB website illustrates what information can be disclosed on an enhanced check. Check out the link for more detail but in summary an enhanced check will include;
1. Standard check information
2. Check of the new barred lists if requested
3. Any information held by the local police force which is considered relevant to the job role.
Further the CRB website provides guidance on what info is available through a CRB check.
Of particular interest to you is that the CRB check can provide information ''held by local police forces and other agencies, relating to relevant non-conviction information''.
In light of the above and Garfield 29's experience you may wish to request information from your local police yourself to see what they have. You can do this by completing The Metropolitan Police Subject Access Form (Form 3019).
There is a fee of £10.00.
You could also ask the police station if this is the kind of information they could disclose if asked.
I hope this all helps and that you are able to resolve this situation soon.
Good luck with everything.
I have had this issue myself with being arrested under the Mental Health Act over the summer and I emailed the charity MIND about it as well as CRB. Both of them told me the same information as I am, however, to disclose what happened and explain it independently in case it actually does show up. I'm pretty sure the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 is there to protect against unneccessary discrimination, anyway.
Seeing as it's been bumped, yes G, I think a person who has previously been in the position where they have experienced a mental breakdown is not more likely to experience a mental breakdown in the future if not exposed to similarly concluding stressors.
I personally don't see how being arrested under the Mental Health Act for those reasons are relevent to the job, except maybe the suicidal tendencies, which honestly makes it questionable to whether a job in pharmacy might leave you vulnerable to overdosing. But that doesn't mean you will. It would be wrong to make assumptions, considering the OP is now clinically stabilised I assume. If occupational health says you're okay, they have absolutely no legal or moral grounds to say no on the basis of your history.
You don't have to have a mental health problem to be suicidal. It is normally due to circumstances that are more social/criminal against the person feeling suididal. Majorly depressed patients often die due to neglect of themselves rather than suicide - an organic problem not a 'psychological' one.
Just because somebody has been suicidal does not mean that they are not very good at their jobs. That's like saying because you have the flu one week, your performance at work is always the same as you were when you had the flu - people get better! If you're suicidal I reckon you'll be off work sick anyway! I would say that people who have had problems in their lives are actually often in a better position to work in caring professions as they have genuine insight into certain problems. This is not saying you can't be a 'doctor' or 'phamacist' if you've never been ill, people bring different skills and different qualities according to their backgrounds (health, race, sex) in all areas of life, and it is these differences which make society function at its best.
As for Enhanced CRB's - they are disgusting. I have contacted everyone regarding mine, from human rights (my right to privacy has been taken away) to my MP. I have been told it will always be on my CRB. There is someone on here who has commented on a friend's section not showing on theirs. Its only the enhanced CRB's which are subject to this, plus if the section was by a doctor not the police it will not be on the CRB. I have a friend who has been sectioned numerous times, but because is has been done by the medical profession she has nothing on her CRB (ironically she is allowed to go back to work in the same hospital that I was sacked from the day she comes off section). However, if its the police who do the section, or who are involved in anyway in an suicide attempt (the same person I know jumped off a bridge - but the ambulance was there not the police) it will be on your CRB.
The only option you have is as has previously been said - do a subject access request from the police, and then fess up prior to the CRB request - you can only hope you have understanding none risk averse potential employers. It really doesn't matter to its relevence. I used to be a teacher - I asked if it would be on my CRB for that too as I would not have any access to medication, the Police chief told me yes as I may take an overdose in front of the class?????!!!! The fact I have worked successfully in teaching and in healthcare for over 10 years with no incident and I was good at my job did not matter.
I've spoken to 'liberty' regarding the human rights aspect of it all. They said they will always find a 'relevence' with a mental health problem because they will claim the stress of a job may re-trigger it?!
I'm still homeless, jobless and have been told will never work again with my CRB - to be quite honest, makes you want to go out and commit a crime to deserve the punishment. Failng that - I have every intention to take my qualifications this country paid for and use them abroad.
Hope it all works out for you never ever - and remember, the world is full of countries who don't have this silliness - your career does not have to be in the UK xxx
This has really worried me now.
I'm sorry if you thought my comments were bang out of order, but having recently come back from Afghanistan I can safely say that there are some situations where people with mental health problems should not be employed, for their own and the safety of others.
You can direct me to as many websites as you want, however whilst in many situations peoples pasts should not get in the way of employment, I'm arguing that in some cases it does make sense not to employ someone.
What you're suggesting is actually illegal too - you can't just decide that you're not going to employ someone on the basis of mental health - unless a) it can be justified and b) no reasonable adjustments can be made.
Which is exactly what I have been trying to put across.
The reason why pharmacy is subject to enhanced CRB is due to the access to drugs. It's a two-part thing: how likely are you to use the drugs yourself and how likely are you to be dishonest in dispensing drugs to others. They're really looking for evidence of substance misuse or dishonesty offences, but part of the substance misuse is assessing how likely you are to misuse prescription drugs. Even ifyour history of mental ill-health doesn't show up on the CRB you will still have to disclose it on the medical questionnaire, particularly if it is an illness that you still experience and still have to control through medication.
Each application should be treated on it's own merits, though, so it depends on what problems you've had and what problems you currently face.