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Abortion
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
i am very against abortion! i totally disagree with it. there's millions of women out there who would give anything for a baby but are unable to have their own. i feel that unless there is a serious medical condition that abortion should be avoided at all costs! it is known to wreck your chances of conceiving later in life.
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Strange p.o.v. to have considering the last line of your sig.
Easy, pregnancy is a serious medical condition that is statistically much more dangerous to the woman than an abortion.
Why are there so many children in the world, orphaned and wandering the streets, cold and hungry, if there are all these 'millions' of caring women out there willing to 'give anything' for them? Sentimental nonsense, I'm afraid.
It's a hard fact but rather an aborted baby that is oblivious to it's situation, than dragging an unwanted child into the world to suffer from neglect.
Okay, that's an opinion, so lets see why....
So, because someone cannot have a baby then no-one should be able to abort? Kinda harsh, it's not like it's their fault that other people cannot have babies, is it?
So, for rape it's just tough shit?
Indeed it can, or at least it's one of the risks but it's hardly a reason to ban abortions.
I respect your view, personally I am anti-abortion. Yet funnily enough I am pro-choice. I don't think that anyone should be forced to have a child just because I don't believe it is right, I don't think that my views should be foisted on others.
Personally, I would rather people stuck to that approach - especially when their stance is based on spurious grounds like your appear to be.
Yes, there are a lot of women who aren't able to have children. That doesn't mean that someone who DOESN'T want a child should be forced to have one.
Many women put unwanted babies up for adoption, but if a woman does not want to be pregnant or have a child, why should she sacrifice 9 months caring for, making allowances for, and taking risks for something so unwanted? Having her body change so drastically? Undergoing health risks?
A woman should have control over her body, her life. Denying her the right to her own body is violating her most basic freedom.
What about rape and incest victims? Should they have to undergo a 9 month pregnancy?
Pro-choice isn't pro-abortion. It's simply giving every individual woman the right to choose what she does with her own body.
If abortions were made illegal, they wouldn't stop being done. They'd just be incredibly unsafe.
Whilst I'm not pro abortion as a means of contraception, unfortunately sometimes contraception does fail and why should a woman be forced to continue a pregnancy if they're not in a financial and emotional situation to provide for a baby?
Hang on. Are you saying that no-one under 16 should be allowed to keep a child? That's the implication of what you are suggesting there - also opens the door to forced abortions. So, I'm a little confused.
However, I know plenty of 30+ people who could equally fall into the "unable to look after themselves" category and yet parenthood seems to bring out the best in them.
So, better to bring an unwanted child into the world?
Pretty much what I think, too.
You can't force women to carry a baby if they don't want one. I'm not saying that abortion should be used instead of contraception; but they shouldn't be forced to go through a pregnancy.
Personally, I would only abort a baby due to rape or if there was a serious risk to my health (either physical or mental) or the health of the baby. I wouldn't use abortion as an alternative to contraception - it's not as if it's something that isn't widely available and some of it is free. (well, the pill is. I have no idea how it all works with condoms)
I remember first time I was pregnant I was 13 mum told me to bring the baby up dad told me to get a abortion or have the baby and then put itt into care like the same happened with me
So I think abortion and killing a baby is wrong
Men are just as responsible for providing protection as women, imo.
Right, minefield of illogical statements here.
This is Politics & Debate, saying "This is my religious belief" isn't going to go unchallenged by people like me who don't accept religion as an absolute moral authority.
I almost stopped reading at "It may even be the child's second life" but I ploughed on regardless to read the valid point "The only time abortion is necessary if [it causes] the mother [to be] ill or cannot carry [the baby]" but I think you would have done better to expand on your definition of necessary and suggest some criteria on how the decision should be made.
Sadly, the second paragraph is anecdotal and does not have a conclusion, but out of interest, what decision did you make about your pregnancy?
I'm sorry to pick apart your post and, but I think it is important to challenge the assertions of religiously minded people.
If you got bord half way reading it why read it all then? I'll talk about my pregnancy some where else do not wish to invade this thread. I do not mind my view being challenged liike they do in RE and all I just say well thats what you think I may think the opposite of it
May i ask do you have a religion as you are challenching mine are you a atheist? but you still believe in something that is aborrion is ok when it is not this baby may not have been fully developed yet and it life may not have begun but you should always take a chance
I am firmly against abortion, and I will outline my reasons for this below (being a Christian these are obviously going to be based on scripture).
Firstly, God created human beings making them to be like Himself (Genesis 1). All life is sacred, but the life of a human is even more so. We have been made in the image of our creator. Regardless of this, we have an absolute moral responsibility to protect all life. Now some will try to argue that a foetus is not alive, that it is only a collection of cells that is yet to develop into a child. However, very quickly that “collection of cells” develops into something that is recognisable as human. Not only that, God has given this “collection of cells” life. He has created it and a child is a great and wonderful gift from God.
Secondly, the Bible commands us not to kill (Exodus 20:13). As I said above God has given this apparent “collection of cells” life. All life, human or otherwise, is sacred and this simple command from God reinforces the idea that we are bound to look after and protect life.
We are also told in the Bible that God knew us even before we were formed in the Womb (Jeremiah 1). We are given life by God at the point of our creation and this, I believe, is before conception in the womb. We exist in the mind of God. The actual process of turning that very definite and real plan in God’s mind into reality takes place in the womb through the conception (Psalm 139).
Now I realise that the above is not very detailed, but it is late at night. I would, however, be more than happy to expand on any of the points above.
I will finish by saying though (and I think this is probably the most important bit of this entire post), that I will never condemn a person for the choices they make in their lives. Only a person without sin can cast judgement (that’s what the story of the woman caught in adultery told us) and the only person who fits that criterion is God. All of us have sinned, whether that sin is to hold anger, jealousy, to commit adultery, to fornicate, to lie, to cheat and so one. Thus, we have all fallen sort of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) However, I believe that God is merciful, gracious and just and that forgiveness and ultimately restoration are available. As Christians we are supposed to be the light of Christ and part of that means showing the same love and compassion that he did while on earth, regardless of what the person has done.
So are you also against antibiotics? They kill bacteria. Bacteria is a unique living thing. Ergo, we should just let someone with an infection die from it, because it would be wrong to kill the bacteria. And on a more practical level, what do you eat? You could probably get away with only eating fruit that has fallen from a tree, but beyond that, eating anything usually involves killing something living.
Trying to pick apart a person's religious beliefs and convinve them they are wrong like that is like trying to convince a dog to let go of a steak.
Whilst I don't agree with Avizandium, he is the only anti-abortionist here who has given a clear reason as to why he doesn't agree with abortion. Now a religious expert will have to go into the details but I'm pretty certain that God placed humans at the top of the food chain and instructed man that the bounty of the Earth was for him to do with as he wished.
And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luke to your future with caution :razz:
Meanwhile, back to part of your submission
Has my learned friend given consideration to the statute in Leviticus 18:21 (And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through [the fire] to Molech) as having greater relevance than Exodus ?
:yes: I was hoping for this too - really interesting stance that I'd like to hear more about.
It's something I've had to think about before -I don't know if any of you recall my chemical pregnancy thread earlier in the year. I define my anti-abortion, pro-choice beliefs by expanding on the term 'pro-choice'.
When people hear 'pro-choice', they often think this is an umbrella term for people who don't have any care or conscience for the life of an unborn child, are reckless and immoral. I totally disagree with that. Personally, I don't think I could do it, but this is my personal choice, just as I choose to vote Green, I choose to eat meat and I choose to smoke (contradictory, right?). I don't necessarily have the same values as people who choose to vote Conservative, who choose to be vegetarian and choose to not to chomp on death-sticks. I know that these people probably have different values to me, that they have based their decisions on personal circumstance and moral beliefs, and based on that they have made their own choices that they believe to be best for them, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It is not my place, or anyones, to make anybody else conform to my beliefs.
Anybody who has had to consider an abortion will know that it does not make you an immoral or unconscientious person. Is an incredibly personal, vulnerable, soul-searching, scary and emotional position to be in. Of course you think about the life of the potential child. Of course you think about your own life. And you can choose to keep the child, or you can choose not to. Aborting can often be the bravest, most conscientious and selfless thing to do, just as keeping it can. It is impossible to make any generalisations about the people in this situation, or the choices they should make.
When weighing up how I think I would cope with an abortion and how I would cope with an unplanned pregnancy, I knew that I could pull together and be a loving mother, even if it was an unplanned child in less than perfect circumstances. Maybe if my circumstances were different, if I was less mature, if I was more brave, if I didn't have a supportive family, or if it was a rape pregnancy I would feel differently. I am reassured to know this is a choice I can still change, should I ever be in this situation again. I have a lot of respect for the poor women who are strong enough to say no, I do not have the ability to raise a child, I am not ready, this would be a selfish thing to do. The hardest choice to make is often the right one. are going through what may be the hardest time in their lives and the last thing they need, after making this most intimate decision, is to be judged for it.
I'm hesitant to say that the positions anti-abortion and pro-choice are contradictory, but I'm presuming that in the cases of pregnancy due to rape or incest or the mother's life being in danger then you'd be pro-abortion. Unless you're saying that there aren't a set of circumstances you can imagine in which you'd choose to have an abortion?
:yes:
I actually thought that was a really eloquent, non-judgemental post, simply outlining his personal beliefs. I think it's quite refreshing to have someone with strong religious ideas try to explain them without telling us we'll all be thrown into the fires of hell.
I don't agree with him either, though, except for the 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' business, which is a damn good point whatever deity you do or don't follow.
It's a nice sound-bite, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
I think as a concept it does: no one's perfect, so we should all cut each other some slack.
Of course, this is from the book that also tells you kill your rebellious children, homosexuals and non-believers, so it's a little contradictory.