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Wikileaks releases classified US military video showing unlawful killing of Iraqis
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
Warning: the footage included in the link below is graphic, sick and disturbing
http://collateralmurder.com/
No doubt no action whatsoever will come of it. If the US' Rules of Engagement really account for killing unarme people on the streets from a safe distance simply because one or two others with them might be carrying a weapon, without even knowning who they are, and without the people behaving aggresively towards anyone, then the US military rules are deeply fucked up.
I guess war dehumanises people, but I find it particularly disturbing how some soldiers can be heard begging that a seriously injured man crawling on the street picks up a(n unseen) gun so they can finish him off with their big 30mm cannon. Not to mention laughing about driving over a body.
Honour, indeed...
http://collateralmurder.com/
No doubt no action whatsoever will come of it. If the US' Rules of Engagement really account for killing unarme people on the streets from a safe distance simply because one or two others with them might be carrying a weapon, without even knowning who they are, and without the people behaving aggresively towards anyone, then the US military rules are deeply fucked up.
I guess war dehumanises people, but I find it particularly disturbing how some soldiers can be heard begging that a seriously injured man crawling on the street picks up a(n unseen) gun so they can finish him off with their big 30mm cannon. Not to mention laughing about driving over a body.
Honour, indeed...
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
I don't really know what to say. I've said it before, I don't support war/the armed forces or the people within it for reasons like this. Of course because of other reasons - but I don't feel the need to explain myself. If that makes me a cunt, so be it.
The video did upset me though.
Whatever concepts of 'honour' and 'duty' those men had when they joined the army were long forgotten by the time they were not only killing unarmed civilians, but actually laughing and enjoying it.
I'd be interested to see what people make of whether the rules of engagement were actually broken, especially at the point where the van was fired upon, when no weapons had been seen.
All part of war? No, it's not. Not at all. The killing is a hideous part of war, yes, but the excitement (that's not the right word at all but a better one won't come to mind) that seems to be there for those in particular, that is not part of war at all, that is just what happens when humans have too much power.
Although killing is a part of war, war is not about killing. It's about achieving something for the better, or the perceived better, and if killing is the way it has to be done, then so be it.
I appreciate that that is not really what this thread is about, but it just makes me furious when people pass things off as 'just part of war'.
And I'm sure you'd be saying those words too if we were discussing the beheading of a British soldier by insurgents recorded on camera... :rolleyes:
I saw the Wikileaks video this morning and it struck me as an extremely biased and deliberately disingenuous piece. There, I said it.
The flippancy, and at times enjoyment, with which the crew of the plane engage the people on the ground is shocking. I don’t think there’s much wiggle-room for denying the group were armed. And not knowing what leads up to the encounter, or how many friendly troops were in the area, I can’t really speculate on the legitimacy of the first attack. It is deplorable, however, that when the van turns up to clear bodies the soldiers proceed to attack clearly unarmed targets; these actions have to be condemned. However, it would be extremely naïve to be surprised at the footage; if one grants that a country requires a military, then you’ve got to train killers, that’s just a fact. And if you train killers then you’ve got to accept that their view of killing if going to markedly different to your own – shockingly so in this case. Moreover, to make claims about the US military as whole based on this incident is to tread on very shaky ground.
well put.
Which takes me to a subject I think it is highly worth debating, but a red herring: why do we keep portraying war and service in the military as honourable, when in so many cases it is not?
For sure there are individual cases that merit the full meaning of honour and heroism, but simply serving in the military does not IMO. But just raising such suggestion would get you shot down in flames by some quarters.
However from a personal experience my view is different. My brother returned from a tour of Afghanistan last week and despite what I thought previously about the war, I felt immensely proud of him for doing it. I'm not sure if that's purely due to society's conditioning of me to feel that way, but I certainly didn't expect it beforehand.
I do feel that he has done an honourable thing in risking his life for his country and people, whatever my political views may be. I suppose to be truly worthy of honour as you describe it, his conduct while at war must have been honourable, and I sincerely hope that was the case.
Maybe it's just perception but it seems to me British soldiers seem to be a lot more focused and less prone to trigger happy incidents than their American counterparts.
i've seen the footage, the initial engagement is questionable, and if the US army admitted it was questionable but justifiable due to a identification error then most people would accept it in war
the continued engagement against the unarmed veichle taking survivors however is a massive break of the US rules of engagement, plus it was covered up which to me is the crux of the matter more than anything else
also remember this isn't in america, this is in another country without any real leadership so gun ownership is probably even more lax at this time
still not as bad as another video which if i find is way worse
there are such things as rules of engagement... especially when this isn't on your soil
these are supposed to be professional soldiers and their attitude isn't one of shooting out of necessity, but almost of just treating it like a video game and finding things to do....
the 2nd engagement against the car picking up wounded people is nasty and legally 'questionable' on part of the soldiers, especially cause of the cover up after by the DoD saying they were under fire when there's nothing of the sort
Because a willingness to put your life on the line, or to kill someone, for the benefit of others is pretty heroic.
Yeah, but it's the pacifists that they do it for.
The right to voice opinions comes with a cost that's been paid in blood and will be defended with blood. The military are the ones who pick up that tab.
Right.. and how would pacifists live without those dying for those. a country of pacafists cannot excist without a group/army to protect it. unfortunately. if it could then we could acheive world peace.
You are quite correct, it isn't. It is, however, the bottom line.