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What do you think of...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
... COMMUNISM?
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Giving more thought to it, it's bullshit! You earn what you get...
Communism will likely never work, as people will always try to strive to get forward. Most people agree that they would rather be individuals, than a mass.
Oh dear. That had me in hysterics! Thanks Vox! You got me out of a bad mood rather quickly.
I have to agree. Communism doesn't take into account that not everybody is equally ambitious and that some people would prefer to lead simple quiet lives, as opposed to high-powered City jobs, etc. Communism also wipes out Academics. They have no value in Marxism, and no place on the economic map.
Marx also said that a communist society would go from working to make a living to living to work. Or some such nonsense. I can't be bothered to find the exact quote at the moment but I'll post it later if anyone wants me to. The only societies that live just to work are subsistence level societies that must do so to survive. Once that level is passed, people can do other things--academia, arts, etc. Communism also has no place for artisans.
Gah. It doesn't seem very well thought out and it's quite easy to poke holes in. Communism will only ever work on paper.
Bingo
:rolleyes:I think you should read something, at least something on communism. And I don't mean something written by a anti-commie, there are two sides, you know. (www.marxists.org)
And I would love to hear that quote, that, if well understood, it's, surely, out of context. Like the famous quote (in capitalism-loving circles) of Marx that said "I'm not a Marxist"
ROTFLMAO.
I have.
:rolleyes:
I've also heard it all from people who lived through it and people who were part of the Party. That's both sides, in case you didn't catch it.
It was not quoted out of context. It was in a paper by Evgeny Pashukanis who was one of the Soviet Marxists. I'll find it when I get back from work. By the way, he was trying to support Marxism.
From the offence you took, I'm assuming you favour Communism. I still stand by my earlier opinion: it's a load of bullshit. And don't be so quick to put down those that don't agree with you simply because of their disagreement. You're going to get nowhere fast with that attitude. :rolleyes:
Which sums it up beautifully.
Sorry, dude but you'll find too many raving capitalists on here to convinces us that a thoretical "perfect" society is possible.
Maybe we're just a little too cynical.
E. B. Pashukanis, The General Theory of Law and Marxism:
In reference to the "withering away of the state", Pashukanis says the following--
Pashukanis believed that law was a creation of the bourgeoisie. He was highly criticized by other communist theorists, however most of that criticism wasn't substantial. Which brings me to another reason why communism will never work--even the theorists themselves cannot come up with a unified, well thought out and well developed theory. They bicker and argue and use emotive, flamboyant language to disguise the fact that they are, in fact, saying nothing at all. An example of this is Vyshinsky, whose criticism of Pashukanis was as follows-- (note that while he criticizes, he offers no alternative theory or improvements)
Further, he says:
Communism will never work because the leaders who attempt to bring it into practice get sucked into the quest for glory and it all ends up a big mess with ass-kissing left, right and centre while the people starve. I'm sure Stalin was greatly pleased at these sycophantic words of Vyshinsky's:
The emphasis in the last quote was mine.
So, as I was saying... Communism is a load of BS.
Edited to add: The quotes from Vyshinsky are taken from the Address at the I Congress on Problems of the Sciences of Soviet State and Law (Moscow, 1938).
Four legs good two legs bad....mmmmmm
I agree with the general consensus here, that Communism in theory would be fantastic, if only it would work.
Gah, now I wish i could remember more of my higher and CSYS history!
You didn't offend me. I thought it was obvious there would be "for and against" answers and I wanted to here them all. Not even now, when you refer to Communism as "bull shit" am I offended, because, reading the next quote, I supposed you were angry.
I wasn't trying to put anyone down, I was just giving some advice, I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. My English isn't that good and I don't express myself properly.
When you are wrong you should rectify (I hope this advice doesn't make you angry again. It's with all my good intentions). You said Marx said it ...
... and you put a quote quoting Marx. Hmmm ...
It doesn't matter where these people are from (USSR, China, North Corea, Vietnam, Cuba...), they didn't live in a Communist society. Communism has never existed in practice. The nearest we've ever been was in Paris in the last years of the Revolution just before Napoleon coronated himself Emperor.
You're not meant to believe everything they tell you. USA said Russia was Communist, Russia said they were commies too. But all you have to do is read how they lived there and what the basis of Communism are... and you can clearly see they have nothing to do with eachother.
I didn't have time to look it up in the original. I do have a life. A quote quoting Marx doesn't negate the fact that the original quote is still by Marx. :rolleyes: You don't need good english to understand that.
Isn't this in itself an argument against Communism in itself? It never has, and never will exist in practice. Castles in the sky. That's all there is to it. I may as well theorize about the grass turning pink--what's the use? Granted you could have pink grass... spray paint!
I can't blame Marx for the fact that his theory wasn't put into practice properly, but I can blame him for the fact that it's a flawed theory.
There would be no progress if people said "Oh, no, it might not work. He tried and it didn't work out." So no, it's not an argument against communism.
I see you're still a bit annoyed so we should stop this coversation and as you said...
And of course I'm annoyed!! You insulted my intelligence without posting any concrete argument for your own point of view. Once you show me that you too have read "at least something about communism" I'll get over it. You haven't done that yet. So go ahead. Now's your chance to show off.
I started this. This is a question on what you think of Communism. I wanted objective arguments for and against. You talked about someone that said that they thought they heard...
You don't have to have an opinion on everything you know...:rolleyes:
Another [apparent] communist supporter who cannot back up anything he/sh says..surely this isn't Steelgate in disguise?
Oh, just thought about tha, can't be. No links
You're right, you started this discussion and yet you still haven't graced us with your opinion.
You won't get many arguments for communism from a group of capitalists.
Although you don't have to voice (or have) an opinion, it does make a mockery of the whole discussion board ethos if you don't, wouldn't you say?
Okay, MoK is right. You need to put your own opinions on, in order to make it a "discussion". Otherwise, it's more like a survey.
Don't attack people's arguments without justification, and thoughts of your own. It's bad manners, if nothing else, and evident of a poorly thought out argument.
Communism is lovely as an idea, though flawed. Firstly, it requires the world to be Communist. That's what caused the Cold War, and the failure of the USSR, I think. Communism can't be isolated. It doesn't work like that.
Secondly, it goes against the instinct of Man to share and work for the common good, particularly when dichotomised against Capitalism as a system.
Thirdly, to transition to Communism from Capitalism/Socialism, as Marx envisaged, there needs to be an incentive to make the change. Please show me where this incentive would come for the majority of the population?
Thank you.
...communism has its appeal within those dreams. However, within the realm of reality, it ain't gonna work.
I hope you're not talking about sexual partners:D
Next time you post, make it more useful and have a proper debate. If you're mature enough to cope with people disagreeing with you rather than just ooh-ing and aah-ing in agreement.
I will post my opinion for the people that have been polite and patient... not for you. You can piss off.
A social, economic and governmental system designed by an engineer...
as it happens, people are not machines, and so Communism just doesn't work. And never will.
Most people here have the courage of their convictions. Right or wrong they post their opinions and stand up to be counted.
Whilst everyone else has been polite enough (yes, including Scarlett) to state theirs in response to a thread started by you, you don't have the grace to do the same.
As the old saying goes, its time to put up or shut up.
The problem is that true communism that Karl Marx proposed needed to be in a place where the industrial revolution had already taken place and that they was a large working class.
Russia when they had they revolution in 1917 was an economic backward country with a small working class population. The people who were in charge of the revolution like Lenin and Stalin tried to miss a step or two steps of what Marx had written about.
First a country needed to have the "bourgeious" or middle class to gain domaints within the country which Russia did not have
Also it needed a large urban working class population which could take control of the factories workplaces etc.
I think the idea of communism that is known by people today because of places like china and the Soviet Union is not proper communism.
Also i believe communism might of worked if it was started in a country which was industrially developed like germany, uk or france
they u go i have given u people an essay