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Legal highs to be banned

In a further pointless addititon to the ' war on drugs' the government is going to make GBL and 'spice illegal. Apart of course from the pointless nature of the whole illegal drugs thing there is a massive disparity in the governments policy.

SOCA said a little while ago that before they take actions like bust a big heroin dealer they consider the possibility that it will lead to a drug war and violent deaths.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmm so will GBL definitely be made illegal? When will it happen? So I guess industrial purchasers will need a licence for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I remember hearing this on the news. Pathetic. The story was "scientists will recommend it's banned because we don't know enough about it." :rolleyes: Since when was that a valid reason for banning something? Surely you are supposed to demonstrate the harm something causes before you try to restrict it. It just shows the government's pathetic attitude to drugs in general. We'd have to prove something is completely safe in order for it to be legalized. Which is of course impossible practically and logically.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally, I think (as does my dad, who is a drug and drink counsellor) if drugs were made legal then there would be less of a problem with crime. I've recently been to Amsterdam, and I think it's so civilized. I mean, what's wrong with smoking the occasional bit of cannabis? And, okay I can understand why heroin ect. is illegal, but once you turn 18 surely you are responsible for what you choose to do in life? As long as it doesn't impact anybody else, I think it's fine. I know people who do legal drugs, like spice, and is it not better for them to take something less harmful than start on something that could potentially end their life? Oh, and the "we don't know enough about it" excuse... even if they did research into it, it would not be deemed safe. They would always find some other thing to pick on about it.
    C-A x
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is incredible to me how a substance can be banned in reaction to baseless media hype and ridiculous campaigns by parents who just can't accept their innocent dead children went to excess. Contrast with alcohol and nicotine, two of the biggest risk factors for premature death in the world, which will never be banned. It seems the current policy of 'ban, don't bother to research' will remain in place indefinitely until the whole mish-mashed, historical classification system is fixed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree yea.... Nicotine is more of a threat than a lot of drugs! If it had been discovered today it would be illegal... but the reason they don't ban it, is because it is impractical. Where as, there must be thousands and thousands of people whose lives are impacted due to other drugs being illegal.
    C-A x
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally, I think (as does my dad, who is a drug and drink counsellor) if drugs were made legal then there would be less of a problem with crime. I've recently been to Amsterdam, and I think it's so civilized. I mean, what's wrong with smoking the occasional bit of cannabis? And, okay I can understand why heroin ect. is illegal, but once you turn 18 surely you are responsible for what you choose to do in life? As long as it doesn't impact anybody else, I think it's fine.

    Drugs are not legal in Holland, even cannabis. They have a rubbish system where the dealers and importers are criminals and the smokers are civil offenders. Granted its not quite as crap as our system but the main control of the market is still in criminal hands.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Class B for Spice? Banning = Education, rightttt.
    Home Secretary Alan Johnson, acting on the advice of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs has said "Legal highs are an emerging threat, particularly to young people, and we have a duty to educate them about the dangers". The substance will be banned by the end of the year and is expected to be a classified as a class B drug. 2009.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't see the point :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This ban will give a chance to the companies dealing in it to make some serious money in short amount of time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The story was "scientists will recommend it's banned because we don't know enough about it." :rolleyes:

    When you consider how much shit the government allows food manufacturers to put in our food, like hydrogenated fat where they KNOW it fucks up our arteries etc, this is just plain ridiculous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    numb wrote: »
    This ban will give a chance to the companies dealing in it to make some serious money in short amount of time.
    Yeah but then they won't make any money after the ban. A steady revenue would be better for the business than a sudden inflow of money and then going bust.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The government haven't banned alcohol or tobacco because they make huge amounts of money from them despite the obvious dangers to health for those who use them.

    Yes they do cost the police force and NHS large quantities of money, probably nowhere near what is made and in turn that also helps the economy as consumers pay tax to the goverment, the government pays people to deal with the issues who then in turn spend the money they are paid, quite often on the above said products.

    The government spend far too much time trying to ban or police drugs that in most circumstances cause less issues than legal intoxicants. It would be better if they legalised the majority of drugs, had quality controls to make sure that people were not getting something that had been tampered with, and taxed the product. Yes I agree there may be a problem with organised crime and drug dealing however if the criminals were removed from the issue as far as possible then everyone would be better off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes they do cost the police force and NHS large quantities of money, probably nowhere near what is made and in turn that also helps the economy as consumers pay tax to the goverment
    Not so sure about that, do you have any reference?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not so sure about that, do you have any reference?

    You add up all the man-hours that are needed to put police and paramedics on the streets on a Friday night and it'll add up to a huge amount.

    Add in vehicle costs, detention officer/nurses/doctors back at base, the costs of clearing up criminal damage or sick e.t.c. from the streets, the costs of sending someone to court or doing the admin work after administering a penalty notice.

    As a base, in my neck of the woods it'll cost somewhere in the region of £65 for a PCSO or £100 for a PC to have them patrolling for 5 hours in the evening.
    Then add in other cops e.t.c. and you've got your total.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    Yes they do cost the police force and NHS large quantities of money, probably nowhere near what is made and in turn

    The tax on tobacco more than pays for the cost to the NHS from smoking related illness. It's a big earner for the governement.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    You add up all the man-hours that are needed to put police and paramedics on the streets on a Friday night and it'll add up to a huge amount.

    Add in vehicle costs, detention officer/nurses/doctors back at base, the costs of clearing up criminal damage or sick e.t.c. from the streets, the costs of sending someone to court or doing the admin work after administering a penalty notice.

    As a base, in my neck of the woods it'll cost somewhere in the region of £65 for a PCSO or £100 for a PC to have them patrolling for 5 hours in the evening.
    Then add in other cops e.t.c. and you've got your total.
    That's what I was thinking. Not to mention something like 50% of smokers die of smoking-related diseases - that must be a hefty use of the NHS.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wouldn't want to mention the legal highs I'm enjoying at the moment in case gov spies see my message and decide to ban it.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    That's what I was thinking. Not to mention something like 50% of smokers die of smoking-related diseases - that must be a hefty use of the NHS.

    They more than pay for it though.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to mention the legal highs I'm enjoying at the moment in case gov spies see my message and decide to ban it.


    You can't be prosecuted for something you have done before a law comes into force.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The government haven't banned alcohol or tobacco because they make huge amounts of money from them despite the obvious dangers to health for those who use them.

    Yes they do cost the police force and NHS large quantities of money, probably nowhere near what is made and in turn that also helps the economy as consumers pay tax to the goverment, the government pays people to deal with the issues who then in turn spend the money they are paid, quite often on the above said products.

    The UK has to pay about £20bn to mop up after the £30bn alcohol industry, frankly I'm not really convinced its worth it. We need to radically rethink our relationship with alcohol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Eradicate the hop fields ...bomb the distilleries ...grow wheat instead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Eradicate the hop fields ...bomb the distilleries ...grow wheat instead.

    But you can make vodka out of wheat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    The UK has to pay about £20bn to mop up after the £30bn alcohol industry, frankly I'm not really convinced its worth it. We need to radically rethink our relationship with alcohol.

    IIRC an article that mentioned the 20 bln costs statistic included the indirect costs of alcohol which when use as part of an arguement against the use of alcohol are completely spurious. It's just taking an optimum and potential productivity figure and deducting anything that doesnt go plan. People aren't robots. It's like saying Britain could produce a trillion more a year if it banned fag breaks, weekends or letting people go to the toilet when they wanted to.

    The direct costs are considerably lower and tax on alcohol more than pays for the public services neccessary to pay for it's extremities, just like the tax on tobacco pays for the costs of that similarly costly product.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    But you can make vodka out of wheat.

    Or potatoes.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok ...grow opium!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bzp was a load of shite anyhow, hopefully it reduces the amount of bzp filled 'ecstasy' tablets that have flooded the country

    they haven't banned on the decent legal highs .. yet .. only a matter of time unfortunately :grump:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well the illegal kind have been banned and look what that achieved.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    IIRC an article that mentioned the 20 bln costs statistic included the indirect costs of alcohol which when use as part of an arguement against the use of alcohol are completely spurious. It's just taking an optimum and potential productivity figure and deducting anything that doesnt go plan. People aren't robots. It's like saying Britain could produce a trillion more a year if it banned fag breaks, weekends or letting people go to the toilet when they wanted to.

    The direct costs are considerably lower and tax on alcohol more than pays for the public services neccessary to pay for it's extremities, just like the tax on tobacco pays for the costs of that similarly costly product.

    Somewhat fair enough, I dont want anything drastic like a ban on alcohol I would just rather the UK had a more grown up attitude to drinking.

    But then having said that I think it is more symptom rather than the cause of the issue, our society is fundermentally broken which is the key.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    Somewhat fair enough, I dont want anything drastic like a ban on alcohol I would just rather the UK had a more grown up attitude to drinking.

    But then having said that I think it is more symptom rather than the cause of the issue, our society is fundermentally broken which is the key.
    And how is society broken?
    What broke it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And how is society broken?
    What broke it?

    We allow frankly shocking poverty and its just accepted. The values of our society are just plain wrong, basically it boils down to money and fuck everything else - aside from the social problems caused by this we are heading towards total ecological break down and most people just couldn't care less.

    A society should be judged by how it treats those at the bottom, and on that measure we are failing miserably.
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