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Is the Euro about to collapse?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Eastern European nations that are not in the single currency but had hopes ...have borrowed around four trillion dollars in Euros over the last few years.
It made sense at the time. The Euro was stable and the loans cheap but now ...the eastern European economies have as good as ground to a halt with bloodshed and chaos looming.
There is not a chance in hell of them ever being able to pay these debts.
Germany ...the rich man in all this ...appears to be moving in a protectionist direction and it's people will not tolerate bailing out failed eastern states to the tune of trillions.
These nations will be left to collapse into chaos by the west leaving Russia ...tp pick the pieces up.
Russia won't be wanting this ...could well do withpout this but ...will have to act to protect itself.
Are we about to see Latvia Hungary and others ...back in the arms of Moscow?
Moscow could really do without this shit right now.
Doubt you'll see this in the papers till the last minute.
It made sense at the time. The Euro was stable and the loans cheap but now ...the eastern European economies have as good as ground to a halt with bloodshed and chaos looming.
There is not a chance in hell of them ever being able to pay these debts.
Germany ...the rich man in all this ...appears to be moving in a protectionist direction and it's people will not tolerate bailing out failed eastern states to the tune of trillions.
These nations will be left to collapse into chaos by the west leaving Russia ...tp pick the pieces up.
Russia won't be wanting this ...could well do withpout this but ...will have to act to protect itself.
Are we about to see Latvia Hungary and others ...back in the arms of Moscow?
Moscow could really do without this shit right now.
Doubt you'll see this in the papers till the last minute.
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I see the European experiment shrinking to half the amount of countries in it at the moment.
I think it is without doubt bloodshed in the east though ...starting in a very short space of time.
Mind you, the UK - a country which is at greater risk of defaulting on its £2trillion debts than Maccy D's - isn't in a much better position either.
While the euro might have had some economic disadvantages due to unscrupulous businesses putting up prices, for hundreds of millions of European citizens there is no conspiracy to take over anything. The euro is actually a convenience for them.
But without wishing to steer away from the OP further, no I don't think it is going to collapse any more (or less) than the Pound is. When the euro first started trading it didn't do very well and nay-sayers were quick to denounce it as a mickey mouse currency. Yet a few years later the euro looked far stronger and healthier than both the Pound and Dollar, and more nations outside the Eurozone ditched the Dollar in favour of it.
Now things are not looking up for the eurozone- but then again they're not looking up for anyone.
My guess is despite the most ardent wishes of island-mentality europhobes, the euro will never collapse and will eventually be adopted by Britain. Whether it is within 15 or 50 years is another matter.
Ikope your right as I've always been in faviur of the single currency but ...I'm having doubts.
Milton Friedman saw the vulnerability of this concept coming and predicted the Euro's demise within a decade of it's inception.
A one-size fits all monetary policy doesn't give the member countries the flexibility needed to stimulate their economies.
A common currency can act as handcuffs in perilous times. Exchange rates can be used as a tool to revalue debt and improve competitiveness of one's economy.
The Eastern Europeans debts to the west are in the $3.6 trillion range. And add to that, European banks on whole have debt levels that dwarf every other developed market country, even that of the United States.
Miltomn Friedman predicted that a situation like this but not even this bad would lead to a fracturing of Europe and serious nationalism.
Yesterday, the World Bank became the first major institution to officially predict that the global economy is about to collapse.
the World Bank abandoned all attempts to sugar coat this crisis.
So ...have you got the veg in?
This is going to be very very painful.
There's nowhere to run to and nowhere to hide.
You obviously don't believe the great depression of the thirties was engineered by the federal reserve and don't believe the same people are responsible for what's going on this time.
If that's the best reply you can come up with I'd suggest people like you are the ones who will suffer the biggest shocks to your lifestyle.:chin:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/houseprices/4974499/House-prices-could-fall-by-further-55-per-cent.html
One could take a positive view on it. If it turns out to be anywhere near correct, and my guess is that it will, there will be good opportunities to be had.
tHE FEDERAL RESERVES BOOKS HAVE NEVER BEEN AUDITED AND NEVER WILL BE. Oops caps .....don't believe a word this guy says.
The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debts.” - Henry Ford
Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States.” — Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)
The Federal Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities.” - Lewis vs. United States 9th Circuit 1992
“The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers.” - Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)
I think you will find the information in this book more informative on the facts behind the Federal Reserve.
http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986395/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237120349&sr=8-1
What plans have you made for the continuing supply of your food ?
This thing called farms. We currently and have for some time produced a surplus of food. It's not going to run out any time soon.
If you have your own farm, then I think you are in an advantageous position. Perhaps less so if you specialise (or you have a contract with Monsanto,or such like, but that is another story for a another day).
I don't need to own my own farm to get food. When in the last 5,000 years have people in the UK starved? We have an incredibly good climate for cultivating food and we are very experienced at doing it. Even so, it's not like they're going to close down all the farms in Eastern Europe either is it?
Some people get it into their heads that if a currency collapses then everyone gets depressed and the world ends. But if it comes to it, ultimately people will just barter. The supply side of our economy - the factors of production etc. - are fine. If we run out of food, we take some of the land deliberately not used for farming because it would run the price down too far, and start growing stuff! You don't have to go far (unless you live in central london I guess) to find the kind of fields that are privately owned but are left unused year on year in order to ensure there isn't an oversupply of food (because logic would dictate if food was half the price people wouldn't buy double, so effectively half the food gets thrown away and farmers make half the income - not good business sense!).
And to be honest, I'm getting sick of the guys over at the Zeitgeist, EVERYTHING they post I can't be arsed even reading anymore, it's turning into a semi-cult.
But don't misunderstand what I'm saying,
No thats not where i get it at all.
As for your food ...this country doesn't produce anywhere near enough to feed seventy million people.
The effects of the transfers and movements of the biggest amounts of wealth in history haven't been felt yet.
This year your in for a very serious shock to your narrow official world view.
When the ships stop shipping ...and they will at some point this year ...your diet is going to change quite drasticly ...get back to me then.
Not to mention the fact that many former farms have been left as due to cheap imports they weren't economically viable to run. As soon as the imports dry up we just dig up the earth and plant more crops.
Currently we enjoy eating rich meat which takes 4x the amount of land-per-pound-of-food as grain. If the shit hits the fan then the obvious solution is that we grow more staple crops and meat will become a supplement to our diets rather than a mainstay. People have been saying for 200 years that we are 'about to run out of food' because they did the simple (and incorrect assumption):
world population -> geometric progression i.e. 2 people have 2 children who each have 2 children (so now 4) and those 4 children have 2 children each (so now 8) and the population doubles every generation
world food production -> linear progression i.e. we can only add one new farm, we can't just double farms like we double people
It turns out that both of these assumptions are wrong.
Food production / yields are falling sharply in poorer countries because of reduced credit to buy pesticides among other things. Similar problems showing up in America which will affect supply if Obama doesn't pull his thumb out to force banks to extend credit for food production, might as well put those taxpayer dollars to some good use...
The oil and energy spike from last year will take about 9 months to show up in soft commodity contracts so expect higher prices in the near term. Longer term demand destruction should provide a counter balance but when you have food reserves at all time lows combined with a credit funded just-in-time delivery system i think we're in for some volatile pricing....
Your showing a huge ignorance re land use and agriculture and the economic situation.
Most city dwellers drive past green fields and wonder why the farmer grows grass year after year ...that grass ois food.
Barley wheat etc.
Grass has to be grown for winter feed for sheep and cattle.
Ok ...we all become vegetarian and most farm animals will become extinct.
An awful lot of the U.K's land is not arable land ...it's pasture ...it isn't going to produce carrots and spuds and cabbages.
The price of fertilisers has just gone through the roof and is heading ever upward.
Have you any idea how long it takes to turn a farm round from one kind of production to a completely different kind in terms of money machinery buildings drainage etc?
I'll take it's thats a no.
I haven't mentioned end of the world stuff or starvation ...I have stated that you are in for a very big shock this year all related to the vast movements of capital.
You want to believe that the world of going to school growing up getting a job buying a house is some God given that has and will run forever then your in for a rude awakening.
I reckon the U.K will go bankrupt this year ...making imports very difficult.
I reckon shipping will mostly grind to a halt.
I reckon that despite the talk and talk and more talk ...most countries will become isolationist.
The U'k will see around eight million unemployed and massive social unrest.
Even your beloved governments are preparing for a summer of civil unrest ...from the middle classes.
Or are they blinded by all this conspiracy bullshit as well.
TheZeitgiest stuff ...I saw the film only recently ...most of it is shallow bollox ...especially the amount of utter rubbish it spouts about religion.
It is fact pretty much that we do not produce food at capacity because there would simply be too much. Following from this, I believe that if there were a crisis in global food levels then people would have no choice but to employ this unused capacity. I'm not saying it would happen overnight, but in the great depression of the 1930s many who found themselves jobless became cheap migrant labour for farmers in the American midwest.
It may be the case that I won't get a job and a house and all that shizzle but I don't believe it's the case that suddenly we will run out of food and I will be starving and relying on nonexistant aid from abroad because the UK is just so good at producing food.
The climate stuff you mention is a bit of an unknown ...a spanner that could be thrown in the workings of food production kind of willy nilly.
Theres only certain types of food we can produce on a grand scale.
We are indeed blessed with an abundant water supply ...most of the world are really starting to struggle with water shortages at the moment but here ...it is certainly a green and well watered land.
I believe a massive lifestyle change is upon most of us ...this year ...and I can only hope plenty of people have the wisdom to see whats coming.
There are plenty of signs that that is indeed happening.
The price of vegetable seed is going up and up as domestic/home use ...demand has started shooting up ...lawns are being dug up on a grand scale and veg patches being put in. More and more families are getting a couple of chickens in the garden or back yard and the price of chickens is therefore going up.
Two years ago a point of lay hen could be had for around four quid ...last year five quid ...they are as of today fetching between eight and ten quid.
So ...peoples view of the future and their place in it is changing ...for the better in my view.
Capitalism needs permanent growth ...that cannot happen now.
Capitalism is about taking natural resources and turning them into junk for the landfill ...the days when we could do that are fast approaching the end.
Hence a drastic change of course.
That's already been announced as a close possibility.