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Anti Semitic?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I wanted to make a post like this to find out if this happens anywhere else or whether it's just where I live that are narrow-minded and find the spontaneous phrase 'you're a jew!' hilarious. I've been asked if I'm of Jewish descent all of my life and it never really bothers me but recently from my boyfriend's friend and his girlfriend (who I thought was my friend as well) it seems a sly way to say 'you have a big nose'.
The conversation was like this last night. I've changed the names of people but Barney is my boyfriend's bestfriend and Carla is his girlfriend.
Really spontaneous by the way..
Carla: Rachael looks Jewish
Me: Thanks
Carla: Don't worry Barney looks more Jewish. He has yellow skin.
*Really shocked look from me*
Barney: Err Carla I think you mean Japanese people. Jewish people don't have yellow skin.
Geekiness of the RPG continues..
Topic of Jews comes up..again!
Carla: Is your mum Jewish?
Me: No
Carla: Is your nan Jewish?
Me: No
Carla: is your dad Jewish?
Me: No
What I really wanted to say yes the dad who is DEAD like I told you about. Yeah he his father was Jewish so YES. It was really obvious that I was uncomfortable because this is the group of friends (altho I actually liked and got on with them in the past as friends) who find the subject of being Jewish HILARIOUS. My opinion is that Barney really needs to get over his own issues of having been of Jewish descent. He makes jokes about it a lot and my boyfriend does too. I have told him to not do it in front of me. It's not really malicious but it's just announcing in a sing song way. 'You're a Jew!' and it makes me really uncomfortable.
I've told my boyfriend why I don't find this funny. I think the Holocaust provided ample opportunity for Jewish people to be a victim and so hardly need it from really lame jokes.
Then further into the night. I've forgotten what my boyfriend said but I disagreed with whatever in a jokey way and then Barney says 'You're just playing the race card because you're Jewish'. So I said really slowly and carefully for him 'Rachael is not Jewish'.
People/Person reading this might be wondering why I deny having Jewish ancestry. This is because my grandfather on my dad's side was Jewish and during the war he was saved by the Rothschild family and taken over to the UK from Germany. His brother however was sent to the gas chamber. Even though I am not Jewish myself it is still quite emotional for me to think about. Another emotion is that my dad is now dead and his family were particularly evil to me during the funeral and made me feel like I didn't deserve to grieve his death. Now after a big effort of reconcilliation from me I have distanced myself completely from his side of the family. We aren't in contact and it still makes me sad about this today but it's something that won't be changed.
So when someone makes Jewish remarks and in such a rude way it links back to all of that family history and makes me physically want to burst into tears. Barney and his girlfriend could clearly see I was uncomfortable yet persisted. Carla KNEW that my dad was dead when she was questioning me with 'Is your dad Jewish?'.
She really is lacking in social skills at the best of times and up till now I have made excuses for being friends with her. The thing that annoys me is that the Jewish thing is clearly seen as something negative. Next/If when I see her I am toying with the idea of asking if any of her family are American just to get my point across about stereotypical views of appearance are quite hurtful.
I don't know. Sick. Of. It.
Thanks to anyone who read this. It might not have made sense and is quite long winded.
The conversation was like this last night. I've changed the names of people but Barney is my boyfriend's bestfriend and Carla is his girlfriend.
Really spontaneous by the way..
Carla: Rachael looks Jewish
Me: Thanks
Carla: Don't worry Barney looks more Jewish. He has yellow skin.
*Really shocked look from me*
Barney: Err Carla I think you mean Japanese people. Jewish people don't have yellow skin.
Geekiness of the RPG continues..
Topic of Jews comes up..again!
Carla: Is your mum Jewish?
Me: No
Carla: Is your nan Jewish?
Me: No
Carla: is your dad Jewish?
Me: No
What I really wanted to say yes the dad who is DEAD like I told you about. Yeah he his father was Jewish so YES. It was really obvious that I was uncomfortable because this is the group of friends (altho I actually liked and got on with them in the past as friends) who find the subject of being Jewish HILARIOUS. My opinion is that Barney really needs to get over his own issues of having been of Jewish descent. He makes jokes about it a lot and my boyfriend does too. I have told him to not do it in front of me. It's not really malicious but it's just announcing in a sing song way. 'You're a Jew!' and it makes me really uncomfortable.
I've told my boyfriend why I don't find this funny. I think the Holocaust provided ample opportunity for Jewish people to be a victim and so hardly need it from really lame jokes.
Then further into the night. I've forgotten what my boyfriend said but I disagreed with whatever in a jokey way and then Barney says 'You're just playing the race card because you're Jewish'. So I said really slowly and carefully for him 'Rachael is not Jewish'.
People/Person reading this might be wondering why I deny having Jewish ancestry. This is because my grandfather on my dad's side was Jewish and during the war he was saved by the Rothschild family and taken over to the UK from Germany. His brother however was sent to the gas chamber. Even though I am not Jewish myself it is still quite emotional for me to think about. Another emotion is that my dad is now dead and his family were particularly evil to me during the funeral and made me feel like I didn't deserve to grieve his death. Now after a big effort of reconcilliation from me I have distanced myself completely from his side of the family. We aren't in contact and it still makes me sad about this today but it's something that won't be changed.
So when someone makes Jewish remarks and in such a rude way it links back to all of that family history and makes me physically want to burst into tears. Barney and his girlfriend could clearly see I was uncomfortable yet persisted. Carla KNEW that my dad was dead when she was questioning me with 'Is your dad Jewish?'.
She really is lacking in social skills at the best of times and up till now I have made excuses for being friends with her. The thing that annoys me is that the Jewish thing is clearly seen as something negative. Next/If when I see her I am toying with the idea of asking if any of her family are American just to get my point across about stereotypical views of appearance are quite hurtful.
I don't know. Sick. Of. It.
Thanks to anyone who read this. It might not have made sense and is quite long winded.
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Comments
Its not really acceptable to make racist jokes - fact. Everyone knows that.
Sometimes people say jokey racist things to each other if they know each other really well and they are all clear that it doesnt have any REAL racist connotations and it doesnt actually stem from prejudiced beliefs, but in this case it actually does sound like its either an issue for them whether you do or do not have that heritage and more to the point, they are COMPLETELY insensitive to 1. that it hurts you. 2. that it pisses you off and 3. your feelings in general.
I think there is going to come a point where you just have to say "look, shut the fuck up about the jewish thing. Its really upsetting and irritating and youre not actually being funny at all"
If they carry on, just avoid them and tell your bf why.
Yeah they don't know me enough to make those sorts of 'jokes' in my opinion. I was telling my boyfriend about this last night and he said something so I said in a mock joking way 'Issit cuz of my Jewish face?? Do you not like my Jewish nose??' but he knew I was joking and he knows I have Jewish ancestry. I feel that I can make jokes about myself like that because I do look stereotypically Jewish. The whole nose thing going on (better than a pig snout I guess?), dark hair, dark eyes and pale skin. But it's not something I do often if at all so I don't see how confusion could have occurred for Carla and Barney. They are such a bitchy couple. I think it was made clear for them last night as we left because they could tell I was angry. But I think they've connected that with another rude incidence that night.
I think that britain today is probably a lot less anti-semitic today than it was 50 years ago and i don't think that they meant it in a terrible way. However i guess that people havent' yet got that just its only ok for people of afrian origin (trying to be as pc as i possibly can without affending anyone) to use the N word - no one else can.
So in the same way its fine for sasha baron cohen to make jokes about jews becuase he is one - its no alright for gentiles to do the same.
Anyway - I think its beyond perfectly alright for you to get upset about it and they really should be more tactful - however maybe you need to explain it all a little bit more to them - also woudl you be upset if for example your dad was welsh and they make sheep jokes all the time?
Carla sounds like a right idiot and your right to not bother being friends with her any more - but i guess it might be worth having a chat with your brother to see if your brother is as upset about it as you are or if somehow he isnt' and if not then why not.
I think I would find it hard to explain it to them without being as open about my family history as I am in this thread. It's not something I can talk about in person so much so that I find it hard to say the word 'dad' without bawling. It's a sensitive subject I guess. When I mentioned in conversation early on when I met Carla that my dad was dead she's the type of person who rather than pausing heads straight for the juicy details..'Oh what did he die of?'. Seriously I swear she looked disappointed that it wasn't some horrific road accident when I said brain tumour.
I don't really feel it's my right to make tongue in cheek Jewish jokes because I'm not actually Jewish but sometimes I like to reflect it back like I did last night with my boyfriend by saying 'Is it my Jewish nose? Is it my Jewish face?'.
If my dad was Welsh I don't know really. I think I would feel less sensitive about it because the Welsh as far as I know haven't been persecuted. Well not in the way that Hitler did to the Jews.
Ah it wasn't my brother sorry. It was my boyfriend. Barney is his best friend and Carla is his best friend's girlfriend who sometimes I hang out with.
I think it is - if your definately part jewish just not the mother bit - my husband and siser in law make the jewish nose joke all the time to each other and with the jew crew (their name not mine) who seem to equally join in - eta if i'm not quite clear they think their grandmother was russian jewish but aren't sure becuase she always said she was caltholic and french....
Maybe you could feed on carla's jumping right in by saying - no i'm not becuase my mother isn't jewish - but and then talk about your grandfather and great uncle - which might shut her up - when she realises it isnt' funny.
Otherwise just stick well clear of her - but you could still ask Barney why he does it/copes with it - even if he's not your brother....
I think it's different to say to someone 'You look Jewish' because if you ask what makes you say that they usually have no qualms about saying the nose. Which to me saying to someone that they have a big nose is an insult. So to me it's pretty much tentatively saying that.
I see your point about Carla but she isn't the greatest one to deal with sensitive info. She's the type of girl who calls another friend's girlfriend 'devil hand' because she has a deformed hand so god knows what she says behind my back.
Barney..is just one of those blokes who thinks he is dealing with raw, shocking on the edge comedy when really it is just naff and racist.
What does that mean? Is there some special "jewish gene" that does something different than any gene found in non-jewish people? :chin:
I got told it was blood.
um I think because it comes from the mother. So weirdly and unlike any religions it's almost like an ethnicity. Maybe I am wrong? This is what I've been told. It's hard to classify.
and i did laugh when someone told me they were jewish whilst holding a bacon sarnie....
but i think thats different...
im assuming that its in the same way that surnames are generally passed down the fathers line. It doesnt make you genetically your fathers and not your mothers.
And in any case, if by "jewish" we're talking about the religion and nothing genetic then noses are completely irrelevant and whose side of the family is jewish is totally irrelevant to what you are, if you don't consider yourself to be.
It is a bit like someone who wants to change nationality having to swear allegiance to the government of the country (and/or the monarchy) and agree to be law-abiding by the laws of that country and they then have to have their citizenship accepted by the Home Office or whatever of that country.
I know. Apparently Jewish people have more prominent (big noses). I guess like some black people have wider ones. Also the nose thing is part of Nazi propaganda so gawd knows really. Still pissed about it all but haven't heard from either of them. Have told my boyfriend I can't be arsed with them. No doubt they will bitch about me to him. :rolleyes: