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5 new high-speed train lines being considered
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7467203.stmFive new high-speed main lines crossing the length and breadth of the UK may be built as part of a review of the rail network, Network Rail says.
The network operator will announce on Monday it is to commission a study looking into what could be the largest track build since the 19th century.
[...]The review will also assess the need for high speed trains similar to the French TGV to cope with Britain's growing number of rail users.
I don't care how much it might cost; I don't care if taxes have to go up to pay for it. This would be the best thing that has happened to the UK transport-wise in the last 100 years, and great news for the British economy at large.
Instead of building the stupid and un-needed third runway and sixth terminal at Heathrow, the government would do very well to use the money to implement this.
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Think of playing a game like Civilization, London is already 'upgraded' massively that it's going to get investment whatever, the rest of the country needs investment, yet it's difficult for anyone to ever see past London when they think of investment UK.
If those lines were to be built then travel by high speed train to France or Belgium from the Midlands, Manchester, Liverpool etc would become a very attractive proposition (and in terms of door-to-door journey times, not a lot worse off than air travel).
However, I do think it's a good idea because I have also been on shitty long journeys from Newcastle-London (coming from Edinburgh or Aberdeen) which were not fun. I think fast tracks are a good idea for long journeys, although the last time I went on a "fast train" to Birmingham, we ended up not being able to use the fast line and getting stuck behind a slow train.
To be fair, that's a seemingly never-ending process of constantly repairing tracks that don't seem to be fit for purpose in the first place. Better to completely replace them all with something better imo. But tbh, I don't think its the speed of the tracks that are the issue anyway. If the British trains actually ever ran on time, then there wouldn't be any need to talk about high speed lines. High speed lines ran to the same quality as the current lines will have all of the same delays and problems.
The trains go as fast as they will ever be able to on the current lines. And that simply doesn't attract enough people away from the plane. And currently 3 out of 4 passengers who consider train or plane between London and Scotland will choose the plane- something we really ought to try to change.
A true TGV sytle train service would take 2.5 hours and would win most of those air passengers, which is what has happened or is happening all over Europe.
Read this article and weep:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3406118.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/7457608.stm
As someone who deals with economic development the UK's planning system is a nightmare which causes major delays and bumps up costs horrendously. I live in awe of the French where the Government can push trhough without mardly any opposition.
As a citizen I thank God that Government has to jump through loads of hoops before compulsorily purchasing my house or building past my back garden. and that Government can't just do what it wants. And I'm horrified by the French where the Government can just railroad through opposition and do what it likes.
Best not go to China then, you'd probably faint if you saw the ease with which the government pushes this kind of thing through. Socialism baby!
Labour are of course trying to make our planning system a wee bit more like that.
If the result is a train that goes over 300mph, fuck the old dears in their house they've had since the 1800s.
When they first started talking about this was before the oil and food crisis.
Where is the vast ammount of energy going to come from to build this?
I don't see a problem with Virgin trains personally, I don't see a problem if you have to get up and get a link train.
Virgin don't have the Cross Country franchise anymore, it's owned by Arriva and so Virgin just have the WCML. The trains are still the same old awful ones though, only there are less of them because Virgin took some to the West Coast franchise. They are too short for the routes they serve and they never put the doubled up trains on the busiest service (10:10 off Leeds to Bournemouth). I hate getting those trains home, it would be soooo much better if they didn't go via Birmingham (defeats the object of cross country but I don't care, it's my imaginary train journey!), and if the seats had window views and the luggage racks had pillar views rather than the other way round. Of couse, Arriva are planning on removing the shop and so you'll end up sitting in the dark anyway because there's no windows in that bit. Oh and they smell like toilet :yuck:
You're kidding of course. You're lucky enough to live in what was once called 'Christendom', so there still lingers the residue of the ancient, solemn, idea that those old dears are made in the image of God himself, and can't just be brushed aside for the sake of something as relatively insignificant as high-speed train lines.
They may be in a transitional stage but they're not 'capitalist'. The State sector is still huge, and the state still controls the most important industries. It goes without saying that socialism is authoritarian by definition.
The first thing to realise is that there is merely an RUS (Rail Utilization Strategy). Network Rail have done/doing these on practically all routes in the UK over the past and coming years, and all the results have been passed to the DfT (AKA The Government) who have basically done fuck all. As a personal opinion it will never happen, the DfT mainly see the railways as a cash cow and are trying to milk it for every penny it has - this plan will never ever get accepted in its current form in a million years, unless someone else pays for it as happened with CTRL. Its also worth mentioning the plan is to build alongside existing infrastructure, which is probably likely to be even more bother than starting a-fresh but notably cheaper. I especially don't hold much hope for it considering the mess the DfT have made of Thameslink and Crossrail thus far. Its also especially worth mentioning most sections of route have a 'fast line', however it is clogged and has bottle-necks and junctions with slower lines, this is especially isn't helped by H&S and the stupid Government rules. The ECML and most of the trains used on it are certified and ready to run at 140mph rather than 125mph but it won't be authorised without literally billions of pounds of investment in entire new signalling systems and other infrastructure improvements which frankly aren't needed. We first of all need to see the improvements actioned that have been mentioned in the existing RUS's, plans which the Government are ignoring, plans which provide faster journeys, new journey opportunities and chance for longer trains.
A failure can and unfortunately will and can happen anywhere, regardless of new express lines or not. When the decision is made to cut a trip short its not done light-heartedly and those making the decisions have to think of the bigger picture overall. I assume you were on the 0948 from Liverpool Street which ran late as far as Witham. The reason this was done is to try and get the train back on-time for its later journeys which means overall less people's trips are disrupted and fewer other trains are delayed. In this event the 0948 terminated 27 minutes late at Witham with the 1100 from Braintree starting on time from Witham - overall causing less disruption.
The Great Eastern Mainline and East Coast mainline were wired on the cheap, the system needs replacing, but yet again the Government won't fund it!
The tracks are fit for purpose, more often that not just simply old and need replacement following years of chronic underfunding. The 300mph Bullet trains use the same rail, the same sleepers and the same ballast that UK railways use, its simply that everything they have is new - just the replacement takes time and money, such as the WCML upgrade.
Punctuality is at an old time high with around 92% of trains arriving within their allotted timetabled time (plus allowance) which on such a crowded network is an achievement, especially considering last year the network was its busiest ever since 1946 - back then we had an extra 4000miles of track and huge amounts of troops moving post war. The train companies are investing a lot of time and money into improving things, every single delay is now argued over and monitored and logged with improvements being cast.
I still remain uncertain that these high speed dedicated links are the way forward overall especially when there are so many improvements that can be made so very easily. We could easy knock 30-40 minutes off Edinburgh - London and 10-15 minutes off York - Manchester without too much difficulty, just some funding and will on the behalf of the government to do it.
I can certainly back up any sources/links that I've used if any body feels like pulling me up on anything
Oh, I know it caused less disruption overall, but that didn't help the guy that said it'd taken him 4 hours to get back to Braintree. Or the people that would have then been waiting over an hour for a train from Braintree. To be fair, if it had been just the one incident I could have understood, but the trains have been completely fucked in this area for weeks. A freight train somehow managed to disrail at Marks Tey a couple weeks ago, which was wonderfully convenient for anyone travelling from anywhere other than Braintree, although they somehow managed to fuck up the trains from here as well, despite us not being on the affected line. Seriously, pretty much every single day on the news I'm hearing some shit about National Express services and how the trains are fucked and stuff. It's alright for me, but people come from Norwich every single day and are getting fucked over.
I get the feeling if it was to go ahead, it would take 50 years to construct and end 5 times over budget as with most things, but what you going to do eh?
You're right there actually. Labour are no better than the Tories, and in fact appear to be worse
Anyone thinking we have it much better here than in France or other nations should ask the residents of the village of Sipson, which is being compulsory destroyed and tarmaced over so the aviation industry can have a wank over their new Heathrow runway.
Whilst there have been relatively minor changes - both were still working under basically the same legislation when planning. ie, even the Tories had to go through a major planning process taking years, and which balanced local concerns (and local support for the by-pass, many saw it as a way to reduce traffic congestion, accidents and air polution in Newbury) against the greater good. Newbury becomes famous because under UK planning law it takes so long to complete, so there is time for lots of stories. Under many other countries the planning inquiry would have been done and dusted so quickly that no journos would have time to manufacture a story.
Like I said, they're a wierd combination of both. The current industrialision of the country is rampant capitalism, even if there are still a hell of a lot of authoritarian controls over it (from what I've seen, the more money you're bringing into the country, the less strictly these controls are enforced). I wouldn't describe them as socialist, because that would imply that they actually provide services to their people.
I have no idea where the bloke that took 4 hours has come from but certain not London, every other train to Braintree made it through all day (even if they were 15 minutes late).
NXEA are having some really really bad luck recently, with wires coming down (normally caused by an external influence) and the incident at Marks Tey (which is now the subject of a criminal investigation so the less said the better). They've also had 4 times as many fatalities as any other operator in the country including another 2 today, one at Stratford and the seventh fatality already this year at Harlow. :nervous: Even if the incident is further down the line from Braintree it can affect services there as trains chop and change between difference services all day leaving trains all over the place.
Add the studies that suggest that for every Pound invested in high speed trains the economy recoups £1.80 through increased business and tourism, and it seems a win-win situation to me.
The only bit I don't understand is the suggestion that they'd be built alongside existing ones. As I understand it true high speed lines require bigger curve radios and more gentle slope angles than ordinary ones. So there'd be lots of stretches where running parallel to existing tracks woldn't cut it.
I don't think the UK rail system can't handle true High Speed and normal domestic services from a financial aspect together, if you have for example a London to Edinburgh High Speed service which picks up say York, Newcastle & Edinburgh I don't think it would fill up to a degree to be successful, and in the same way other places like Doncaster, Retford and Durham wouldn't be able to fill the existing services damaging the overall network for all (which has happened in other countries). I also think we need to be focusing on the 'normal' journeys we need to make - the likes of Leeds to Manchester, Birmingham to Bristol, Preston to Liverpool and so on. Improvements can easily be made to the current infrastructure, the WCML and ECML are both signalled for 140mph for about 70-80 miles each and we can't currently use it!! Its seriously difficult to see if it will be a big success or not, its a big risk, will the government risk it?
As for the plan to build alongside existing lines, you are pretty much correct. Gradients and curves need to be significantly altered from traditional rail and certainly in some places it can work, I imagine its to cut the need for so much in the way of compulsory purchase on homes/land etc. As its not due to happen until 2025 anyway I wouldn't worry yourself about it too much
I reckon the start of domestic services by South-Eastern on HS1 in December 2009 will be a big sign - will SE commuters be prepared to pay 30% extra for a shorter journey time?
PS: Plenty of delays on Eurostar today, tut tut!