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The abortion limit (following the IVF thread)
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
More on the fertility and embryology bill.
Should we leave the abortion limit at 24 weeks, or is that too late?
I thought this was interesting, but I should make my position clear.
I do not think I would ever have an abortion but I believe fully in a woman's right to choose and in exceptional circumstances the 24-week limit remains appropriate.
Should we leave the abortion limit at 24 weeks, or is that too late?
I thought this was interesting, but I should make my position clear.
I do not think I would ever have an abortion but I believe fully in a woman's right to choose and in exceptional circumstances the 24-week limit remains appropriate.
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Comments
The limit is really a secondary issue, as I understand it only a tiny fraction of abortions happen that late and if treatment were quicker even less would.
The 200,000 legal abortions we have each year is better than one woman having a go herself at home.
But that's a different issue - it's perfectly possible to say abortion should be legal, but there's a cut-off date beyond which only severe disability* or risk to the life of the mother should be considered.
Personally I'd just say you can have an abortion for whatever reason you want up to 20 weeks, for medical reasons between 20 and 24 and only in exceptional circumstances after 24.
That said I'm not a doctor and could be persuaded either way on the figures
*and it's arguable that severe disability shouldn't be a reason
Strongly agree.
Part of me thinks (quite extreme I know) that there should be no abortion limit. It's a woman's right to choose and a woman should have ultimate and total sovereignty over something inside her own body. And whilst this sounds extreme, lets emphasise that abortion isn't something any woman takes lightly - lets also remember that whatever the limit, late abortions are rare.
Being more pragmatic I don't see a problem with 24 weeks, there are cases where it's required. (Obviously there shouldn't be any limit for medical reasons).
If MPs wish to reduce the number of late abortions, instead of cutting the limit - they should reform the law to allow for abortion on demand. (Excellent article from the New Statesman which touches on that).
I'm happy to debate about the legal limit, but reasoned debate with scientific evidence and not Samuel the magic foetus :rolleyes:
I read that her ultimate aim is to reduce it to 13 weeks. Well, I can't remember whether it was her, or another MP involved in this. I'll try and dig out where I read it. I suspect most of the anti-choice lobby wouldn't be interested in stopping there though.
I've been watching Peter Singer a lot lately. That's not even close to being extreme. The guy makes a very compelling case for allowing infanticide.
Well my suggestion would be up to 10 weeks only 1 doctor required then up to 24 2 doctors need to sign off. This means early abortions that don't need invasive treatment can go through quicker. Why would a blanket ban at 20 weeks be a good thing, that's what I can't understand?
If it was done in conjunction with measures to make early abortions speedier then I wouldnt have a huge issue with this. But I am curious as to why the move is desired, survival rates for babies born at 24 weeks hasnt improved since this was last debated.
I would still absolutely support a woman legally having the final say though, and my views here are just for terminations for non medical reasons
There are parts of the US now where abortion is de facto illegal unless for serious medical reasons.
Does he actually make an argument for allowing infanticide?
I thought his argument 'for' infanticide was an argument for extending human rights to great apes... i.e. if babies/the mentally ill are protected under the law, then logically, a chimpanzee should be too because it is a more 'rational' being.
A-level RS was a long time ago though so I might be wrong.
I read that she personally wants it to go down to 9 :nervous:
To be honest, in a lot of places, the signatures just come down to rubber stamping, on the forms you cross out whether or not the doctor saw the patient, so technically, a woman might go through a process where the only doc she sees is the operating surgeon.
I'd rather there be a system where a woman can self-refer for a termination, and a doctor signs a form on a 'promise' that they will provide care; before, during and after the termination, as little or as much as the woman wants.
He'd say that he "puts it on the table for discussion." He says that he sees no moral issue with allowing doctors and parents deciding between them after the birth to euthanize the baby. His opinion is around alleviating suffering, and he argues that the suffering in infanticide is no more pronounced than the suffering of abortion. He also believes that there is no rational argument for elevating human suffering above that of other animals, and so unneccesarily causing suffering to animals is worse than abortion or infanticide.
Here's an interview where he discusses a lot of his views.
The second thing to look at are the numbers having abortions. At the moment, the number runs at around 200,000 per year. The Sunday Telegraph yesterday featured a story claiming that nearly 4,000 women have now had FOUR abortions by the time they are 30. My understanding is that abortion can be a very traumatic procedure for a woman to go through, so the news that some have had so many is worrying. Did the people who wrote the original 1967 Abortion Act foresee all this? And why are there so many abortions these days? Surely it's not all down to women knowing that such facilities exist?
How J? How would you support a child?
erm embryo viability hasn't changed in few decades for ones born prematruely under 24 weeks
personally my view is that the main sponser of the bill would like no abortion really and is going about it with the wedge method
my own view regarding abortion is that the embryo is part of the womans body, she has every right to cut off life support so to speak as long as it isn't sentient, that comes at 28/29 weeks, and viability is at 24 weeks+ so 24 weeks is perfectly fine
and im a big fan of using my own protection too
These are the sorts of people that the Conservative party are giving a voice to. And their aims are worse that anything the BNP wants to do. I can't wait to hear Nadine Dorries' response to this documentary, because she really is in bed with some of the most odious fundamentalists as it stands. People who believe homosexuality and sex before marriage should be illegal, and blasphemy laws should be enforced.
It's on Youtube now. Prepare to see the sort of indoctrination of children that the modern Catholic faith schools could only dream of.