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Comic Books and Objectification
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
"The comic book heroines shown above are drawn in such a way, with their revealing costumes and unrealistic proportions, that they become nothing more than images of adolescent sexual fantasies. By portraying women in this way it helps to form the idea that a woman is merely an object whose value lies in her ability to attract and please men. These images help to form the ideas of both young male and female readers towards women and contribute to the view that women are inferior to men and therefore deserve a seondary status in society."
Having a huge debate on this in art class. What's your POV? This isn't confined to comics, it's also games, TV shows for younger kids, etc.
(I didn't write the above paragraph, by the way.)
Having a huge debate on this in art class. What's your POV? This isn't confined to comics, it's also games, TV shows for younger kids, etc.
(I didn't write the above paragraph, by the way.)
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But the word "hero" in general already implies a strong female lead, and so her looks are somewhat incidental (unless you're gonna tell me all the male superheroes who aren't also physically attractive). I would suggest that if you were looking for sexism in comic-book stories, you would look at the fact that it is always the woman being saved (just an example; I don't read comics, so I couldn't say whether that's an accurate criticism in the modern day).
I don't think this is true at all. In many of these cases, you will find a stong, confident female character who is also sexy. Tomb Raider was blatantly meant as a teenagers wet dream, but it gained huge popularity among young girls as a strong female lead in a computer game. It certainly wasn't an example of a character who's only value lies in her ability to please men, even if it was originally intended that way. The very fact that the female character is the hero is testament to the value of the character beyond her looks. It's a similar concept to the character of Buffy. It's actually a similar concept to most male action heroes too. You rarely see anything less than the "perfect" physical specimen of a man heading up the latest action film, unless someone is going to tell me that Arnie, Stallone, The Rock and Vin Diesel are examples of average men where image isn't an issue. Though incidentally, the characters that often ended up the most popular were the more average characters who didn't rely on their "manliness" to win out in the story. Bruce Willis in Die Hard for example was cited as a more "real" action hero. The problem is when the characters become merely a sexual object for the enjoyment of men, (not that there's anything wrong with that, just not in most of the media most of the time), rather than a role model for women who just happens to also be sexy. But like I said, I think both sexes place far more emphasis on women's looks in general, so I'm not sure the appetite for an "average" female hero is there in the same way that it was for the male hero, because society has always place more emphasis on female looks (which I believe is a natural thing, rather than a socially engineered thing).
You certainly don't see it in Preacher or From Hell, in Persepolis, Hellblazer, Fables, etc. Even most Mange tends to use more realistic figures - though there's plenty of sexism is some genres of manga. I think it is significant that if a book has a large female audience then it tends to present women in a realistic way.
Powergirl at the moment is just miserable - a female character whose costume is designed to show off her tits to 'distract' bad guys during fights - fucks sake.
It also makes you wonder why the need to appeal to an audience this way. This isn't the days of having to hope to find a porno mag in the railway sidings - pornography is widely available for free on the internet and yet there is still this need to sell comics with soft core titalation.
Now that's not to say sex doesn't have a part in comics - but I'd rather read it in a proper context (in Concrete's The Human Dilemma, in The Boys by Ennis or even the open, blantant and almost liberated sexism and abuse of Robert Crumb).
Wonder Woman's a pretty unique character (She was invented by a psychologist who want women to have a positive role model based on greek myths - and he spent most of his time writing stories where she was tied up and whipped whilst having the art done by him and his wife's girlfriend. Not an average 1940's/50's lifestyle) but the difference between her original and quite realistic look and the 80s/90s was clearly a decision to target teenage boys over the years, not girls.
Ultimately though I don't think the medium is being deliberately sexist - it's simply sold itself in a corner by refusing to deal with the range of subjects that can appeal to a female audience. By excluding that market people tend to make products that try for the lowest common demoninator and when your only readers are 14 year old boys and even they are starting to read more manga, well, you pretty quickly end up with tits flying everywhere.
I don't think the people who make this stuff are sexist, but they have to sell their product. I know of plenty of books and films where men are portrayed as annoying, useless creatures that at best will be slightly inferior to gorillas but I don't think there are many young boys who feel inferior because of it. There are lots of things that happen in childrens books/films/comics that don't happen in real life so they know the difference. People learn their behaviour from real life people they know.
Delete as applicable to topic.
If you're still debating this i'd point out the obvious cheap tricks prevalent in the text. Firstly, comic book heroines are equated to "nothing more" than the wank-fantasies of backed-up teenagers. It completely ignores artistic merit, enjoyment extracted or pretty much anything any reader takes away from the reading. I'd also like to put my hand up and say that Jessica Rabbit always did, and still does - as a 25 yr-old male - totally do it for me (not a comic book heroine, admittedly, but i just wanted to confirm sketched hotties aren't exclusively the remit of randy teens). Secondly, there's no mention of the men. I seem to recall the men in cartoons largely being muscle-bound, chisel-chinned Prince Valiant types; a stereotype you could argue men would agonise over the attempt to live up to. Thirdly, it's totally hogwash.
I think it'd be a shame if the only time they come up is for this discussion(which is pretty, well, dull). It'd be much more interesting if framed in the context of Dikto's expressionism or Kirby's physical style or even how the influence of Eddie Campbell and other independants affected the art in comics... Just be a shame to miss out on all the great issues that comics create for debate in favour of this one.
A comparison between independant artist owned works (Maus, Palastine, Crumb's work, Persepolis) vs. the massive DC/Marvel industry and the place of artists within them could be really interesting.
Well depends what you mean by a sexual manner - the Greeks and especially the Romans had plenty of sexually explicit paintings, murals, wall paintings, etc - but the style, whilst crude, was pretty much realistic in it's presentation of the human body and people it was depicting. In the same way as the art in the Karma Sutra or Victorian erotica is pretty realistic about body proportions (if not positions...). Sex as part of hero worship is definately common throughout human expression, not sure giving everywoman 48DD breasts and a 4 inch waist is...
Do i spy a cheeky comic book fan in you, Jim?
The avatar is a clue
I think that most areas of the media are laiden with female objectification.
Tank Girl is cool though, just because.
I think that's one of the things that made me like the game so much. Same with James Bond - Natalya was just hot enough to die for. Perhaps it's a flaw of the way we're socialised that I was attracted to such images at a relatively young age, or maybe it's just natural.
Looking back I can see the objectification in some sense, even though they are often heroines and so aren't just sex objects, they are nearly always incredibly sexy, and that's just a big hit with naive young boys who are obviously very curious but with the taboo around sex or sexualised images of men and women (especially when children are around) that it ends up as some form of selling point.
There were plenty of boys who used to buy the Sun just for page 3. I don't know the solution though, that's just my own experiences.
(Mind you as Charlie's War was supposed to be an anti-war tract it failed, as it one of the influences which made me join the PBI - sorry Pat Mills)
:yes:
Comic books depict both sexes with disproportionate body sizes. It's part of comic culture. I can't see anything worng with the actual illistration, I'm not sure about written character though because I don't read them.
Different times but i'd bet the muscles on the blokes were exagerated and the tits and arses on the women ...to the taste of the day. We have always had to have our dreams and fantasies.
The Chinese culture goes back 4,500 years and not a naked body in sight ...i wonder why that is.
they got some?