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Multiple wives will mean multiple benefits
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Husbands with multiple wives have been given the go-ahead to claim extra welfare benefits following a year-long Government review, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.
Even though bigamy is a crime in Britain, the decision by ministers means that polygamous marriages can now be recognised formally by the state, so long as the weddings took place in countries where the arrangement is legal.
The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife, as is permitted under Islamic law. Ministers estimate that up to a thousand polygamous partnerships exist in Britain, although they admit there is no exact record.
The decision has been condemned by the Tories, who accused the Government of offering preferential treatment to a particular group, and of setting a precedent that would lead to demands for further changes in British law.
New guidelines on income support from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) state: "Where there is a valid polygamous marriage the claimant and one spouse will be paid the couple rate ... The amount payable for each additional spouse is presently £33.65."
Income support for all of the wives may be paid directly into the husband's bank account, if the family so choose. Under the deal agreed by ministers, a husband with multiple wives may also be eligible for additional housing benefit and council tax benefit to reflect the larger property needed for his family.
The ruling could cost taxpayers millions of pounds. Ministers launched a review of the benefit rules for polygamous marriages in November 2006, after it emerged that some families had benefited financially.
The review concluded in December last year with agreement that the extra benefits should continue to be paid, the Government admitted. The decision was not publicly announced.
Four departments - the Treasury, the DWP, HM Revenue and Customs, and the Home Office - were involved in the review, which concluded that recognising multiple marriages conducted overseas was "the best possible" option. In Britain, bigamy is punishable by up to seven years in prison.
Islamic law permits men to have up to four wives at any one time - known as a harem - provided the husband spends equal amounts of time and money on each of them.
A DWP spokesman claimed that the number of people in polygamous marriages entering Britain had fallen since the 1988 Immigration Act, which "generally prevents a man from bringing a second or subsequent wife with him to this country if another woman is already living as his wife in the UK".
While a married man cannot obtain a spouse visa to bring a second wife into Britain, some multiple partners may be able to enter the country via other legal routes such as tourist visas, student visas or work permits.
In addition, officials have identified a potential loophole by which a man can divorce his wife under British law while continuing to live with her as his spouse under Islamic law, and obtain a spouse visa for a foreign woman who he can legally marry.
"Entry clearance may not be withheld from a second wife where the husband has divorced his previous wife and the divorce is thought to be one of convenience," an immigration rulebook advises. "This is so, even if the husband is still living with the previous wife and to issue the entry clearance would lead to the formation of a polygamous household."
Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said that the decision was "completely unjustifiable".
"You are not allowed to have multiple marriages in the UK, so to have a situation where the benefits system is treating people in different ways is totally unacceptable and will serve to undermine confidence in the system.
"This sets a precedent that will lead to more demands for the culture of other countries to be reflected in UK law and the benefits system."
Mr Grayling also accused the Government of trying to keep the ruling quiet because the topic is so controversial.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/03/nbenefit103.xml
Even though bigamy is a crime in Britain, the decision by ministers means that polygamous marriages can now be recognised formally by the state, so long as the weddings took place in countries where the arrangement is legal.
The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife, as is permitted under Islamic law. Ministers estimate that up to a thousand polygamous partnerships exist in Britain, although they admit there is no exact record.
The decision has been condemned by the Tories, who accused the Government of offering preferential treatment to a particular group, and of setting a precedent that would lead to demands for further changes in British law.
New guidelines on income support from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) state: "Where there is a valid polygamous marriage the claimant and one spouse will be paid the couple rate ... The amount payable for each additional spouse is presently £33.65."
Income support for all of the wives may be paid directly into the husband's bank account, if the family so choose. Under the deal agreed by ministers, a husband with multiple wives may also be eligible for additional housing benefit and council tax benefit to reflect the larger property needed for his family.
The ruling could cost taxpayers millions of pounds. Ministers launched a review of the benefit rules for polygamous marriages in November 2006, after it emerged that some families had benefited financially.
The review concluded in December last year with agreement that the extra benefits should continue to be paid, the Government admitted. The decision was not publicly announced.
Four departments - the Treasury, the DWP, HM Revenue and Customs, and the Home Office - were involved in the review, which concluded that recognising multiple marriages conducted overseas was "the best possible" option. In Britain, bigamy is punishable by up to seven years in prison.
Islamic law permits men to have up to four wives at any one time - known as a harem - provided the husband spends equal amounts of time and money on each of them.
A DWP spokesman claimed that the number of people in polygamous marriages entering Britain had fallen since the 1988 Immigration Act, which "generally prevents a man from bringing a second or subsequent wife with him to this country if another woman is already living as his wife in the UK".
While a married man cannot obtain a spouse visa to bring a second wife into Britain, some multiple partners may be able to enter the country via other legal routes such as tourist visas, student visas or work permits.
In addition, officials have identified a potential loophole by which a man can divorce his wife under British law while continuing to live with her as his spouse under Islamic law, and obtain a spouse visa for a foreign woman who he can legally marry.
"Entry clearance may not be withheld from a second wife where the husband has divorced his previous wife and the divorce is thought to be one of convenience," an immigration rulebook advises. "This is so, even if the husband is still living with the previous wife and to issue the entry clearance would lead to the formation of a polygamous household."
Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said that the decision was "completely unjustifiable".
"You are not allowed to have multiple marriages in the UK, so to have a situation where the benefits system is treating people in different ways is totally unacceptable and will serve to undermine confidence in the system.
"This sets a precedent that will lead to more demands for the culture of other countries to be reflected in UK law and the benefits system."
Mr Grayling also accused the Government of trying to keep the ruling quiet because the topic is so controversial.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/03/nbenefit103.xml
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Comments
I think it's a silly move by the Government, but given their anything goes attitude, the only surprise is it hasn't happened sooner.
The government cannot seriously claim to be for women's rights if it gives extra benefits to husbands with multiple wives.
Polygamy should be discouraged; put into practice it is almost always exploitative.
A polygamous relationship is much more likely to be abusive, exploitative and violent. Whether it's a Mormon sect practicing it or Muslims it's a practice that should be strongly discouraged.
Polygamous relationships themselves if consensual cannot and should not be outlawed. For the state to formally recognise them, dish out extra benefits and legitimise them is outrageous.
Whilst the UN is seeking to end a practice which is incompatible with gender equality; our government is discouraging progress for women's rights.... giving the green light to multiple marriages (if they happen abroad where it is recognised).
People who want to live in a country which degrades women, where polygamy is acceptable, where gay rights are non-existent should not be welcome in a liberal democracy in which equality is an emphasised aim.
Maybe, seeing as this is the politics and debate forum, he was hoping for some sort of opinion on it? Just a guess, like.
I agree with Dis, that they shouldn't be illegal if everyone is consenting (how can they be), but equally, I can't see any benefit in allowing them tax benefits. They would by definition be a drain on taxation, because one man is supporting four families, and unless he's well paid, that's a pretty hard gig.
I think pointing to Saudi Arabia as a representation of pologomy in general is unfair. For a start, men are allowed four wives, but women are only allowed one husband, which is obviously unfair. And I think that abuse of women is part of Saudi society, so again, I don't think you can automatically blame it on pologamy. I mean are men with "open relationships" or several partners in this country more likely to be violent towards their wives? No more so than a man with one partner, I would guess.
It should have to be legal in this country before we ever start to consider recognising those of other countries. And I am definitely against any sort of tax benefits because of it.
The old legislation was that only one spouse can be treated as co-habiting, meaning any other adults living in the property will get the full adult rate (which is £59.15). Instead they're all going to be treated as co-habiting, meaning they will get £20 a week less.
Also, this "new guidance" has been around for ages- my 2006 welfare textbook lists it, ffs.
What's wrong with that, sanitize?
Multiple spouses benefits 'not unfair'
People living in polygamous marriages are to be allowed to continue to claim income support after a review found the present system does not discriminate against others in traditional marriages. Although marriage to multiple spouses is a crime in Britain, the welfare system has recognised polygamous marriages which took place in nations where they are legal since 1987. There have been fears that people in such marriages might receive more income support than ordinary people. This was found not to be the case. As a result, the claimant and one spouse will still be paid at the couple rate of £92.80 a week, if over 17, while any extra spouses will receive £33.65.
I haven't criticised anything.
I haven't even stated my opinion on the matter at all... (yet).
I just put the article up for discussion, and right now I'm actually just trying to make sense of the whole thing, and then I will form an opinion. Thanks for your clarification though.
I say, if the marriage is legal in another country, let it stay in that country. Asylum could throw a spanner in the works, though.
I didn't say I didn;t give a shit I asked what point was being made. Sanitize had only pasted a news story, no comment on it at all.
I was asking what he was trying to say - did he agree, did he think it was a bad idea or was he just trying to have a pop at his favourite religious group...
This doesn't change the current approach - it's still illegal to marry in such a way in the UK. However, where the marriage has taken place elsewhere then the state will recognise it - in the same way that we recognise people whom are married in the US, Europe or pretty much anywhere else in the world.
if you was resident in cetain countries you could too
personally i couldnt deal with the bills and arguments
In certain countries where the Muslim population is greater (eg India), there is a separate marital law for Muslims which allows them to marry more than one wife.
I personally know.... *counts*.... about 4 men who are living in the UK and have more than one wife.
^ Good point. He should only be marrying as many women as he can support himself, so benefits shouldn't come into the equation.
Mmmmmm cock
- Man lives in the UK
- He is Islamically married to 4 women (who all reside in his home).
- According to British law however, he is only married to 1 of these women and the other 3 women are co-habiting with him.
How does this 'new' law change the circumstances of this man?
This initially seems less than ideal and as if we as a nation are condoning polygamy. BUT on further digging it appears that in fact this entitles them to a lower level of benefit than if they were being treated as independant adults, which could be seen as a better system as far as the tax payer is concerned.
BUT that then goes on to raise equality and womens rights issues....
Can you have two independant adults living in the same home?
Pretty sure you can have independant adults living at the same address, think lodgers and house shares.
Where can women have more than one husband?
Quote from the OP "The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife, as is permitted under Islamic law.", and how about you read this thread and see how many times muslims/islam is mentioned.
The fact that this would apply to mormons too (for example) is pretty much overlooked because of an obsession in our media (and some members of these boards) with islam and muslims. Particularly when it comes to trying to smear them or portray them generally in a bad light.
Now, the media and you can try to pretend that this is about "polygamous marriages" but it isn't and we both know it. This is propaganda.
How the fuck is that a factor in a thread about benefits?
Before I jump in, I'm interested to see where this is going...:chin:
only apply to non conventional mormons, as the main branch of the religion now looks down upon it (my uni flatmate was a member of LDS)
:yes:
I'm an independant adult / one person household although I live in a flat of which I rent one bedroom from the landlady who also lives here. Her income has no bearing on my benefits.