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Incapacity Reform
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
What does everyone think about the new tests? Will it just hurt the genuine cases, or is it better to have a test that's more relevant to the modern workplace?
Speaking as someone who's mother is technically entitled to incapacity benefit (but doesn't claim because she doesn't want to have to do all the tests), who is perfectly capable of working at a computer, I have to agree with it. And I think in cases where the person is not computer literate, benefit should be conditional on attending the free courses that are offered in colleges, in something that will allow the person to return to work. But a lot of people are whinging about this on the news today, and I haven't had time to watch it, so I'm not sure why.
Speaking as someone who's mother is technically entitled to incapacity benefit (but doesn't claim because she doesn't want to have to do all the tests), who is perfectly capable of working at a computer, I have to agree with it. And I think in cases where the person is not computer literate, benefit should be conditional on attending the free courses that are offered in colleges, in something that will allow the person to return to work. But a lot of people are whinging about this on the news today, and I haven't had time to watch it, so I'm not sure why.
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But I wouldn't want to see people forced into jobs that are unsuitable, it depends on the individual.
i think if training is offered to people to do jobs they could manage and they previously thought there were no jobs they could do i can only see this is a massive boost.
i think you'll find a lot of people who will complain are the ones who dont want to work at all.
i think JSA is the next one they need to tackle.
Are you saying that you would rather claim benefits than work in a basket weaving factory? Assuming of course that you also didn't want to go to college and retrain.
this is part of the problem, people dont want to work in the jobs they can get so would prefer to carry on taking from the system, where in my eyes if theres a job out there for people why shouldnt they take it?
Who is treated more like a child? The person who's offered a job in a factory and a chance to pay their own way, or the person who's given a cheque every month to live off? Of course in the case of disability, you need to make sure the person is physically and mentally capable of doing a job, but assuming they are, I think the patronising thing to do is to assume that they wouldn't want a certain job because they'd think it's beneath them.
I bet most of us have done shitty jobs at one time or another. I certainly have done jobs which bored me/frustrated me but they were a means to an end and that's how life goes sometimes.
Why can't you stick out a job?
i dont mind paying £400 a month in tax and NI to support people less off than myself, i have a problem with people not working when they could easily have a job.
I'm also concerned about what I've seen practical evidence of when working with people who recieved incapacity and other benefits. Many people would only be able to even make it to the testing on a 'good day' but hated being on benefits. As a result they would always be ashamed to be honest about how they were on a 'bad day'. They basically felt that they were hated for being on benefits and didn't want to looked down on.
It often felt that the tests themselves would be geared towards an assumption that a person could do work, rather than be fair, and combining that with people too ashamed or embarressed to be honest about their problems meant they would often fail the test and then end up in desperate poverty because they were in reality completely unable to hold down a job.
I'd prefer to see a test that can address this.
In addition - the old tests - such as walking 400m - is that really so irrelevant to being able to manage a working life? Just because someone can use a mouse doesn't mean they will be physically able to make into a workplace or handle the communte to work, does it? I have no object to new tests but it seems there has be some understanding that for a person, for example, with extreme problems with arthritis, that work doesn't start and end at your desk - it includes a vast number of physical factors that can all relate to each other.
Ah god knows, it just always seems like these things are designed to continually reduce the number of people on benefits as opposed to actually help people who need it...
but that wouldnt be you couldnt work because you are "incapacitated" would it? therefore why get IB? maybe in that case the person in question should switch over to another benefit?
i honestly dont know enough about how the benefit system works seen as i only ever tried to claim once and they as good as told me to go away.
from my experience there is a mass failing in the benefits system in helping people out who need it and focus more on people who've never worked / dont want to work.
but as i said previously, i would NEVER refuse anyone benefits who didnt need them to survive or look after their family.
Well then why would you need benefits? I assume that you only ever spend money on absolutely essential items. I couldn't imagine you have a TV, a comfortable sofa, an internet connection, a car, electricity, new clothing, or any of these other luxuries. If you do have any of these items beyond the absolute essentials for living in our society, then what you're basically saying is that you want this "dictator" to fund your lifestyle. Presumably by your standards, a small shared flat and a weekly food parcel would be enough to ensure your survival. The second someone wants more money than the absolute basics to help them survive, it should be given on the condition that they are willing to take a job they are capable of doing, or accept a place on a course that will allow them to gain a better job (or both). Is the payment of tax not essentially a good will gesture? And so would you not feel guilty about taking this good will gesture indefinitely as if it is somehow owed to you?
or not working at all and claiming benefits?
If someone refuses work for those reasons and stays on benefit, I wouldn't agree with that. But if someone did feel strongly about working for capitalist companies it would be their own prerogative to find work in another field.
I don't wish to make this personal, as I've seen the hard time that members get on this topic. (I also used to get criticism when I was working six days per week over the summer too, but I digress) I deferred my place from university at the end of October, due to personal circumstances. I'm currently claiming Jobseekers Allowance, and actively looking for a job. Indeed, I have an interview for a job this coming Friday. As I've paid into the system, I just see myself as taking back a little of what I've paid in earlier. When I'm back in work, I'll be paying in once again.
As for the proposal, I'm slightly uneasy with all of this. On the one hand, you have to make sure that people aren't on benefits they're not entitled to. On the other, you don't want to scare away people who are genuinely entitled to this money. I'm not entirely convinced that this test fits the bill.
i honestly dont know and would appriciate someone filling me in on it.
when i got made redundant from my last job i went to sign on and all that, and i couldnt get anything for 12 weeks or something daft so in the end i couldnt be arsed with it all, and was in a new job before i would have even got anything anyway, it doesnt try to help people like me. (this is obviously JSA rather than IB).
then they still have the cheek to send me a letter saying my NI contributions for 1999 are not up to scratch or something and may effect my pension, they can bugger off, they aint getting anymore off me.
Gotta agree, they don't seem to be much help for people who actually want to get out there and work quickly.
I got one of them the other day. For about £14 to be paid by 2012. What the fuck? I thought their only job was to take the correct amount out of your wages?
i just thought fuck it, chances are i wont get a state pension anyway by retiring age
I've found the opposite. They didn't even tell me what Job Seeker's is and exactly how I get it. They wouldn't even tell me how to get incapcity benefit, despite the fact that I told them that I'm partially sighted and due to the problems with my eyes, and am in constant pain.:rolleyes: They also told me that there's no such thing as the personal cpacbility assessment, which incidently, it looks as though I won't pass, even though my vision and hand-eye co-ordination are seriously messed up.
Many people with my condition and who are partially sighted, don't always get it. And if we do, it's only the lowest rate of care and there's no way I can just live on £17.10 per week.
Lental soup, beans and tap water all round. :thumb:
As with most Govt legislation, it's the implmentation which makes all the difference. As usual they'll get it wrong.
not really....
a lot of people on IB are never going to get better, this new testing is "supposed" to be about getting those people into work, not finding temporary jobs they can do while waiting for the NHS to get into gear.
waiting lists are so old hat, they really aint as bad as what people make out, they are for some things but 99% of the time, if you need the treatment, you can get it.
I've been waiting since May for a treatment that I need, my local trust has major debt problems and I've just found out I won't get any treatment until the new financial year i.e. next April. I'm ill and in so much pain and can't work without treatment. It's shit.
Agree with this.
There will always be people who are too ill to work, and there will always be people who are two lazy to work, and who want to either lie about being ill, or grossly exaggerate mild illness. The problem is cracking down on the latter without affecting the former.
There's a possibility these changes may help a few people who do want to work, but aren't sure what they can do, but generally I don't think it'll make much of a difference.
What's to stop people faking difficulty on the tests?