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rape or robbery

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/us/01brfs-judge.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

Not much of a debate I guess, but how fucking hideous is the sentancing here :mad: :(
Beep boop. I'm a bot.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gotta log in to read that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    basically a prositute got raped, and the guy got done for theft of services not rape
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    see, prostitues arent people.

    i'll take 4 please
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Did she get raped, or did she have sex with him, and he didn't cough up?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Did she get raped, or did she have sex with him, and he didn't cough up?

    he pointed a gun at her and instructed her to have sex with him and three buddies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    November 1, 2007
    Pennsylvania: Judge Criticized in Rape Case

    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    A bar association has criticized a judge for refusing to uphold sexual assault charges against a man accused of making friends rape a prostitute he had hired. The judge, Teresa Carr Deni of Municipal Court in Philadelphia, said she considered the case “theft of services.” Judge Deni heightened the furor when she defended herself to The Philadelphia Daily News. “She consented, and she didn’t get paid,” the judge told the paper. “I thought it was a robbery.” The man, Dominique Gindraw, was accused of ordering the woman at gunpoint to have sex with three men. The judge dismissed the charges of rape and sexual assault on Oct. 4, but upheld those of robbery and false imprisonment. The chancellor of the Philadelphia Bar Association, Jane Leslie Dalton, said: “The victim has been brutalized twice in this case, first by the assailants, and now by the court. We cannot imagine any circumstances more violent or coercive than being forced to have sex with four men at gunpoint.”


    Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

    consented, at gun point?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    basically a prositute got raped, and the guy got done for theft of services not rape

    That takes the piss, rape is rape no matter wether she was a hooker or not. :no:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BerberElla wrote: »
    That takes the piss, rape is rape no matter wether she was a hooker or not. :no:

    what's your point?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know this isn't the point, but out of interest, what would the sentences for each crime be? Because in the UK, it wouldn't surprise me if you'd get more for robbery than for rape.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what's your point?

    What was yours? :confused:

    My point was pretty obvious.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what's your point?

    Presumably the fact that for anyone other than a hooker, the charge of non-payment of services would never have even been considered.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BerberElla wrote: »
    What was yours? :confused:

    My point was pretty obvious.

    damn, I need to get better at reading posts in context. For some reason I thought you were arguing something very different than what you were. I have no idea why.

    Sorry, my mistake.:o
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    damn, I need to get better at reading posts in context. For some reason I thought you were arguing something very different than what you were. I have no idea why.

    Sorry, my mistake.:o

    That's ok, I thought it was pick on the noob night. :razz:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BerberElla wrote: »
    That's ok, I thought it was pick on the noob night. :razz:

    Nah that's usually on Wednesday ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another source:

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5izlkb836ozvIcbi13QL38OYyWVnwD8SKFPB00
    Municipal Judge Teresa Carr Deni heightened the furor when she defended her decision to a newspaper. "She consented and she didn't get paid," Deni told the Philadelphia Daily News. "I thought it was a robbery."

    That's the judge's position...
    The 20-year-old woman, a single mother, testified that she worked for an escort service that advertised through the Web site Craigslist.

    She went to a North Philadelphia home Sept. 20 to meet Gindraw, who had agreed to pay her $150 for sex. He then said that a friend was coming with the money and that the friend would pay her another $100 to perform sex acts.

    Instead, three other men arrived, and Gindraw pulled a gun and ordered the woman to have sex with all of them, she testified.

    "He said that I'm going to do this for free, and I'm not going nowhere, and I better cooperate or he was going to kill me," she testified at a preliminary hearing.

    Gindraw also took her cell phone and a purse containing pepper spray, she said.

    The other men have not been identified or charged.

    That's the girls version of events, and I'm inclined to believe it's accurate seeing that;
    She [Judge Deni] upheld conspiracy, robbery, false imprisonment and other charges against Gindraw.

    Also, I looked up bar association (because I didn't know what it was), and it's a group of legal, qualified peers. So she's not being criticised by the tabloids, she's specifically being criticised by other lawyers, judges and members of the legal profession for how she has dealt with this.

    Will this give justice to the poor victim? No.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is a very interesting case. I can see both sides. (and depending on my mood and train of thoughts, one or two more sides :chin: ) I am torn on 2 pieces. The first one, she was consenting with the idea of the friend for 100 dollars, so what's the difference between 1 friend 100 dollars and 3 friends 300 dollars. As soon as the 1st person pulled out a gun and made a demand it did become armed robbery. But, on that same token, as soon as the gun was pulled it no longer was consensual sex and that makes it sexual assault.
    I go back and forth on those two points.

    I am glad there was a charge and a conviction in this case. Either way one wants to look at it, the woman was a victim of a crime. In some societies and under some law codes in effect today, the woman would've been the only one punished and quite possibly with her life, even though she clearly was the victim of a crime.

    Does the fact that she was willing to sell her sex for 100 bucks make this simply a petty theft if all they took was in a sense 300 dollars? (until the gun came out...I so agree, as soon as the weapon was shown it became armed...robbery, rape...what have you, but it certainly jumped it up to a serious crime). I don't know, I apologize, I am sorta rambling and trying to sort this out. We can all take comfort in the fact that we are humane enough to recognize that she was the victim.

    Glad I am not the one who had to rule on this case,
    Vino


    p.s. The Bar Association is what all lawyers in the United States belong to. They have to pass their "Bar" exams after law school to become an actual lawyer. You can not practice law in the US without being a member of the Bar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    She didn't consent to have sex with them. They forced her to have sex anyway. You can't get more black and white than that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes you are correct, they did force her, as soon as the gun came out, all bets were off. I can't help but ask myself, would she have agreed to it if they has simply paid her?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
    they didnt give her that choice. They wanted to rape her.
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